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Ryanair at it again!

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Ryanair at it again!

Old 13th Oct 2001, 21:55
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Pengineer
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Angry Ryanair at it again!

Look what Michaels planning now!
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...&issue_id=5840

We should all try it, lets book a Ryanair ticket then 'unilaterally' deduct 50% of the cost and tell them theres a recession and they should be glad we're flying with them!

If Ryanair is doing as well as he keeps saying they are he shouldn't need any favours.
 
Old 13th Oct 2001, 22:05
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Can anyone explain this statement from MOL... Such a move, if imposed unilaterally across all Ryanair services in Ireland, could save the carrier up to 10m by 2003.

I have recently purchased tickets from Paris to Dublin, you can clearly see that Ryanair charge for each item separately, so while slashing the fees paid to Aer Rianta may save ME money, I cant see how it can save Ryanair 10m.

Or am I missing something?????


Mutt.


PAYMENT DETAILS
*****1,090.00 FRF Adults
********40.00 FRF Fees
*******150.00 FRF Service Charges
********35.60 FRF Ins Levy/PSC
*********0.00 FRF UK Air Duty
*******102.00 FRF Government Tax
*********0.00 FRF Airport Tax
*********0.00 FRF Car rental
*********0.00 FRF Insurance
*****1,417.60 FRF Total Paid
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Old 13th Oct 2001, 23:13
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A recent applicant to Ryanair for an F/O position was charged a 50 cv processing fee.There would be a further 150 p/c charge if the applicant got that far and ultimately a 15,000 conversion charge.Then because the applicant held only a frozen ATPL his salary would be 11,000IR.He would recieve only 50% sector pay for the first two years and 75% sector pay for the next two.The contract offered would be for four years.It is thus easy to see how Micheal O'Leary intends to save money.Any pilot who holds this man up as a model for the future of aviation is a disgrace to his/her profession.
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 00:08
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So you didn't get the job then, Westman??
 
Old 14th Oct 2001, 00:37
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After that little lot maybe westman couldn't afford to take it.

[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: mainfrog2 ]
 
Old 14th Oct 2001, 01:15
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Guv*anke* talking of giving people jobs who's employing you at the moment? Why don't you do us all a favour and go to Afghanistan to do some voluntary work. Hopefully a stray missile will come your way.
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 02:27
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This sort of explains why the low cost airlines are doing quite well thank you and the majors aren`t. The flag carriers pay up the going airport fees...the low costs complain and in Stelios`s case grizzle when they have to pay the same as other carriers.

So if the the EasyJet`s, Ryanair`s in the world paid the same fees as the majors would you still be able to offer these fares of 1 etc...?
 
Old 14th Oct 2001, 04:53
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Well, looks like MOL is finally getting the free hand he's waited for all this time.

So he's gonna chop the Aer Rianta fees unilaterally. That's just a 'taster' for what's in store.

The lucky guys being offerred jobs at FR now have just had a unilateral (I love that word) 25% hike in the 'fee' for the type rating (they pay for it themselves). I don't refer to it as a 'bond' exactly...'cos thats exactly what it ain't! Just 'cos you fork out the 15,000 (up from the 12,000 he wanted before Sept 11th) is no guarentee you've got the job! If they like you they'll keep you. If not take a hike. So, not really a bond, eh? Fair enough.

But I hadn't heard the one about the sector pay! Coooool! Nice one! Good ole MOL!

When the decks are really cleared, and all those nasty dinosaur 'fat cat' carriers are gone...then MOL will really show you what he has in mind for the travelling public. And hey...if you don't like it, you know where to shove it. (Only problem is, you'll have two choices...FR, or the boat/train/greyhound/whatever).
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 14:11
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Don't see what you lot are complaining about. If you want to fly for Southwest Airlines, you have to have the rating - whether you pay for it yourself of have it courtesy of a previous employer doesn't matter - but no 737 rating; no interview.

Plus you pay an application fee and other charges related to the application process. They still have thousands applying to them - and Southwest is regarded as being one of the best employers in the US - so there's obviously a lot fewer whingers over in the States than there are here in Europe!

Perhaps if all airlines took this approach, fewer of them would be in trouble right now.

And finally, don't forget that FR pay their people exceptionally well - you just have to (quite properly) work bloody hard for it.
 
Old 14th Oct 2001, 14:27
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Guvnor, where do you live-
oh I see, Darkest Africa...
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 14:57
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Brakes to Park,

I suggest you take some chill pills, you are up against the biggest wind up merchant of modern times.

The Guvnor

I know who you are. A BAGGAGE HANDLER at STN.
Tomorrow I shall put a picture of yours on the forum!
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 19:31
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At Southwest...no 737 rating; no interview...
At FR...no 15 grand; no interview.

And after paying up, maybe no job anyhow.

How much does a 737 rating cost in the US?
I can get one for $6,000!!

A nice little earner for FR.


They still have thousands applying to them
Can I see your figures/check your sources please. Seriously! If you're right I'll start a school offerring 737 type ratings and be a millionaire overnight!

..and Southwest is regarded as being one of the best employers in the US
But FR is not regarded as being one of the best employers in europe. By a loooong shot.

so there's obviously a lot fewer whingers over in the States than there are here in Europe
Resorting to insults again Guvnor. Tsk Tsk. No wonder you get no respect.

Perhaps if all airlines took this approach, fewer of them would be in trouble right now.
Yeah right...anyone with $6,000 dollars...you're hired!!. That should keep the terrorists happy anyhow Guv.

And finally, don't forget that FR pay their people exceptionally well - you just have to (quite properly) work bloody hard for it.
You obviously didn't read Westmans comments very carefully did you. Unless you really think that a starting salary of 11,000 and fifty percent sector pay is your concept of an 'exceptionally well-paid' pilot.

On thinking about it, it probably is your concept of an exceptionally well paid pilot.
Which is just one more reason why I'll never work for you.

Or M'OL.


[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: Idunno ]
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 19:47
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Idunno - you obviously didn't read westman's post carefully either: the person in question only has a frozen ATPL (therefore zip in the way of airline experience, especially on 737s).

I'm sure if you do your homework you'll find that anyone with plenty of experience - and the right ratings - will be on full whack and not be liable for any of the conversion costs (which shouldn't apply anyway!)

I'm also reliably informed that if you come to FR with the proper ratings, there's no conversion course, so if you can get a JAA rating in the States for $6,000 then I suggest you get yourself signed up as an agent pronto!

(PS: I claim my 10% commission!)

(PPS: What's with the bunny stuff anyway?)
 
Old 14th Oct 2001, 20:02
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Guvnor you don't need a JAA rating to work for Southwest.

Oh I see...we're supposed to be discussing Ryanair! Fine, then stick to the subject and leave Southwest out of it...nice try at muddying the water anyhow.

Westman referred to a frozen ATPL'er? So what! Ryanair has never had a two tier payscale before. You were either a Captain or an F/O, and you got paid as such. Now we're seeing new rates being invented for 'less experienced pilots'.
My view is you can either do the job or you can't. If you can't then you aren't fit to sit in the seat. If you are, then you deserve to be paid the same rate as the next guy...especially if there is only one rate (i.e. no length of service scales).

MOLs arrogance in unilaterally cutting the landing fees by 50% is disgraceful. What a chancer! If you parked your car downtown and then told the booth operator you're only giving him 50% of the charge when leaving...do you think you'd get very far?

I hope they get some a/c seized and impounded.

As to the 'Bunny stuff'...ever seen Conair?

[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: Idunno ]
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 20:11
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But I thought that the low cost airlines were all doing ok and that the majors were just whinging to get Government subsidies because they are big, unwieldy and inefficient (or at least that is the impression I got from listening to MOL and the fat orange one over the last few weeks)

Surely they dont want it both ways? That would be unfair...wouldn't it

[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: Man-on-the-fence ]
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 20:12
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GUVNOR YOUR THE BIGGEST PLONKER ON PPRUNE AGAIN .GET OFF PILOTS BACKS AND TAKE YOUR PATHETIC COMMENTS ELSEWHERE.
YOUR COMMENTS ARE CHILDISH AND IDIOTIC AT A TIME WHEN PILOTS NEED SUPPORT.
IF YOU EVER GET ON MY AIRCRAFT EXPECT TO BE OFFLOADED.
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 21:53
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Idunno - Southwest is very relevant to this discussion, as it's the Southwest business model that FR follow.

I do have to admit that you're right about MO'L being a bit of a chancer with the unilateral 50% cut of the airport charges - is this going to apply only at Aer Rianta airports (where the two of them get on like cat and dog at the best of times) or is it going to be everywhere?

That said, you might like to compare a couple of rates I just happen to have to hand here for Cork and Manchester:

Cork
Landing fee per tonne: IEP4.04 (approx GBP3.20)
Passenger facility charge (per pax): IEP 7.23 (approx GBP5.75)

Manchester
Landing fee per tonne: GBP7.99
Passenger facility charge (per pax): GBP4.20

So, a B737 with an MTOW of 55 tonnes and say 100 pax would cost GBP751 at ORK and GBP859 at MAN. I really can't see what he's got to gripe about with Aer Rianta!

mjenkinsblackdog - ummm, I'm not quite sure why you think I'm 'on pilot's backs' on this particular matter - we're talking about airport charges and Ryanair copying Southwest! Do please let me know what and for whom you fly, so I can avoid that airline/type like the plague...
 
Old 14th Oct 2001, 22:14
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Guvnor when comparing Southwest and Ryanair I will accept that Ryanair base their business model on that of Southwest.

There the comparison ends, and all other comparisons are of zero relevance...such as what pilots earn in the respective companies, how much training costs, how many pilots want to work for them etc etc. So please stop comparing apples with oranges...you are usually the first to point out that European pilots have no basis on which to compare salaries and working conditions to US pilots and vice versa.

MOLs chancerism doesn't end just with landing fees either. Have a look at their website under the 'News' section, where he moans to passengers about the unfair increase in insurance costs and after pledging to 'fight on behalf of the customers' then slaps them with a surcharge to pay for it!

Of course he's entitled to do that...but it's the pathetic whinging and spin doctoring that is somewhat sick making.
If O'Leary really has the best interests of 'the customer' at heart I suggest that he refuses to pay the insurers any increase, instead of attempting to extract it (on the double) from Aer Rianta and his customers.

Of course he won't do that, because the Insurance companies aren't the pushovers that Aer Rianta are. MOL loves a soft target...as you've pointed out so clearly.
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 22:15
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mjenkinsblackdog, can you (would you) really off load people for your own personal reasons because of a post of this forum?
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Old 14th Oct 2001, 22:51
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Why don't all prospective applicants "unilaterally deduct" 50% of the conversion course cost, and offer to do their conversion course at that place that does it for $6000, I'm sure Mick would understand, hes a businessman after all.
 

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