Lies, Damned Lies and British European
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Why do you have to take things so personally & be horrible to people?
An airline who are so inconsiderate as to go broke on you...as i heard it & i may be wrong,but the banks pulled in their loans on Gill because of the current climate,why else would BE be doing so well?
I only hope you don't live to regret some of the things you have said as i have some really good friends working for BE.
Why do you have to take things so personally & be horrible to people?
An airline who are so inconsiderate as to go broke on you...as i heard it & i may be wrong,but the banks pulled in their loans on Gill because of the current climate,why else would BE be doing so well?
I only hope you don't live to regret some of the things you have said as i have some really good friends working for BE.
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Is that some sort of threat? 
You are quite correct as to why Gill went belly-up, however the damage had been done long before.
The reason for my tone was simply that both the title of the thread, and the assertions of PaulDeGearup, are completely out of order, as they imply that BE somehow lied to Gill staff- that is not only untrue, but quite outrageous on a public forum. These assertions are also damaging to BE, but that is obviously OK in your book....
BTW, I have first-hand experience of being in airlines that have gone broke... twice. I know how it feels and I sympathise, but that is absolutely no excuse for both the title and initial content of this thread.
You are quite correct as to why Gill went belly-up, however the damage had been done long before.
The reason for my tone was simply that both the title of the thread, and the assertions of PaulDeGearup, are completely out of order, as they imply that BE somehow lied to Gill staff- that is not only untrue, but quite outrageous on a public forum. These assertions are also damaging to BE, but that is obviously OK in your book....
BTW, I have first-hand experience of being in airlines that have gone broke... twice. I know how it feels and I sympathise, but that is absolutely no excuse for both the title and initial content of this thread.
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That's right, RD, and that is still no reason to mis-state the reason Gill went under. We were a profitable, solvent company, with passenger loads increasing month on month, and we were in the black at the bank. What they pulled was the share capital. Your own FOD has stated that he doesn't understand why the bank pulled it, since you have taken over some very nice routes, with good loads.
Incidentally, unless I have severely mis-remembered it, your MD stated on local TV here that BE would be employing "up to 55 pilots, cabin crew and engineers". That appears not to be the case.
We lost out, thanks to the Bank of Scotland. You gained. No hard feelings towards BE or any of your pilots who will be moving to this very nice part of the world - we'll even be pleased to see them in the Aero Club. Just don't expect us to be able to afford to buy them a beer.
If you employ any of our former cabin crew, you'll find them to be one of your best assets - they certainly were one of ours. We had many, many letters of praise from passengers for the standard of the service they recieved, the friendliness and professionalism. Please look after them well for us.
And stick to the facts next time, please, like you expect others to?
[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]
Incidentally, unless I have severely mis-remembered it, your MD stated on local TV here that BE would be employing "up to 55 pilots, cabin crew and engineers". That appears not to be the case.
We lost out, thanks to the Bank of Scotland. You gained. No hard feelings towards BE or any of your pilots who will be moving to this very nice part of the world - we'll even be pleased to see them in the Aero Club. Just don't expect us to be able to afford to buy them a beer.
If you employ any of our former cabin crew, you'll find them to be one of your best assets - they certainly were one of ours. We had many, many letters of praise from passengers for the standard of the service they recieved, the friendliness and professionalism. Please look after them well for us.
And stick to the facts next time, please, like you expect others to?
[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]
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Funny then, that no-one else felt sufficiently confident to step in and invest in Gill. In any case, the precise reason is academic.
I hate to see companies go under, and I understand your disappointment, however you too need to stick to the facts.
Unfortunately, none of you seem to be able to come up with the same quote. You will recall that the words "no guarantees" were prominent. Also, once the dust has settled, and we know the disposition of our own crews, it is quite possible that ex-Gill pilots will end up employed by BE- but not until all our own crews' bids are in and processed. Similarly, I would imagine some engineers would end up on the payroll as well. Your case is not helped by the fact that a number of people who hold type ratings for the types we fly, and are either unemployed, or will shortly be so, would probably be willing to re-locate to NCL just to have a job.
Our MD has said nothing that is not true, and as he gave no promises regarding timeframe, it is unlikely that he will end up in that position. The situation is extremely fluid at the moment, and we are reacting to changing circumstances on a daily basis.
Some ex-Gill folk seem to think that a) BE owe them something, and b) any pilot employment will happen this week. I'm afraid it just doesn't work like that, as you of all people should know, Hugmonster.
I hate to see companies go under, and I understand your disappointment, however you too need to stick to the facts.
Unfortunately, none of you seem to be able to come up with the same quote. You will recall that the words "no guarantees" were prominent. Also, once the dust has settled, and we know the disposition of our own crews, it is quite possible that ex-Gill pilots will end up employed by BE- but not until all our own crews' bids are in and processed. Similarly, I would imagine some engineers would end up on the payroll as well. Your case is not helped by the fact that a number of people who hold type ratings for the types we fly, and are either unemployed, or will shortly be so, would probably be willing to re-locate to NCL just to have a job.
Our MD has said nothing that is not true, and as he gave no promises regarding timeframe, it is unlikely that he will end up in that position. The situation is extremely fluid at the moment, and we are reacting to changing circumstances on a daily basis.
Some ex-Gill folk seem to think that a) BE owe them something, and b) any pilot employment will happen this week. I'm afraid it just doesn't work like that, as you of all people should know, Hugmonster.
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What makes you think nobody else felt sufficiently confident to invest in Gill? Sorry, but that's a total nonsense, and shows how little you know of the subject, yet feel prepared to spout off about it.
The company felt no need to seek further investment. I personally know of two other major investors who were prepared to invest in Gill, as well as many employees who were asking for the opportunity to invest.
RD, you generally come across as a very sensible sort of person, and generally very knowedgable about the industry, compounded by an unwillingness to go off half-cocked. You have done yourself a disservice here. Or perhaps you think Gill deserved to fail? Why else the sour remarks?
The company felt no need to seek further investment. I personally know of two other major investors who were prepared to invest in Gill, as well as many employees who were asking for the opportunity to invest.
RD, you generally come across as a very sensible sort of person, and generally very knowedgable about the industry, compounded by an unwillingness to go off half-cocked. You have done yourself a disservice here. Or perhaps you think Gill deserved to fail? Why else the sour remarks?
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Come on guys, how about you give it a rest.
I'm sure that if and when the management of B E are in a position to offer any pilots positions within their company, then they will look favourably and sympathetically towards those of us from Gill.
Until then, all of this bickering is doing nobody any favours.
Good luck to British European, I hope you prosper at NCL and good luck to all ex Gill employees, I'm sure things will work out well in the end.
BALLSOUT.
I'm sure that if and when the management of B E are in a position to offer any pilots positions within their company, then they will look favourably and sympathetically towards those of us from Gill.
Until then, all of this bickering is doing nobody any favours.
Good luck to British European, I hope you prosper at NCL and good luck to all ex Gill employees, I'm sure things will work out well in the end.
BALLSOUT.
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OK, final from me on the subject of Gill: Explain to me, Huggy, how if all these people were ready to invest (with sufficient funds), Gill ended out of business. There was ample to time to effect a rescue; the simple fact is that the money wasn't there.
It was also common knowledge that a buyer was being sought for Gill... nobody was interested.
You believe what you want, Huggy, but I think most people can see that profitable, investment-worthy companies survive- notwithstanding the effects of Sept 11.
I too hope we can eventually offer employment to all ex-Gill staff, or that they find something better.
It was also common knowledge that a buyer was being sought for Gill... nobody was interested.
You believe what you want, Huggy, but I think most people can see that profitable, investment-worthy companies survive- notwithstanding the effects of Sept 11.
I too hope we can eventually offer employment to all ex-Gill staff, or that they find something better.
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That's enough arguing over semantics. I will have the last word on this.
For whatever reason Gill went under it doesn't detract form the fact that the pilots, engineers, cabin crew and all the other staff find themselves out of a job. BE has taken over some of the routes and are employing some ex-Gill staff. If the NCL base proves to be as profitable for BE as it was for Gill then we can expect BE to expand there in the future and therefore there will be more opportunities for those that haven't found alternative employment.
Yes, the title of the thread was unfortunate and unfortunately I don't have the facility to edit the title any more but if everyone can just step back a minute and realise that the author was probably upset due to his circumstances and placed a distorted interpretation on the BE MD's words. Unless he was a newspaper editor then as with most topics, the titles leave quite a lot to be desired and we should learn to accept that not everyone gets it right first time around.
So, please stop all the bickering over the irrelevant stuff. Form what I can gather in this thread is that Gill crews were hard working and professional. BE are taking over some of the routes and opening a base in NCL so there will be some opportunities for ex-Gill crews to join them and if all goes well in the future then there will be more opportunities.
For whatever reason Gill went under it doesn't detract form the fact that the pilots, engineers, cabin crew and all the other staff find themselves out of a job. BE has taken over some of the routes and are employing some ex-Gill staff. If the NCL base proves to be as profitable for BE as it was for Gill then we can expect BE to expand there in the future and therefore there will be more opportunities for those that haven't found alternative employment.
Yes, the title of the thread was unfortunate and unfortunately I don't have the facility to edit the title any more but if everyone can just step back a minute and realise that the author was probably upset due to his circumstances and placed a distorted interpretation on the BE MD's words. Unless he was a newspaper editor then as with most topics, the titles leave quite a lot to be desired and we should learn to accept that not everyone gets it right first time around.
So, please stop all the bickering over the irrelevant stuff. Form what I can gather in this thread is that Gill crews were hard working and professional. BE are taking over some of the routes and opening a base in NCL so there will be some opportunities for ex-Gill crews to join them and if all goes well in the future then there will be more opportunities.
