Dubai
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We can only use TOLMO TESSO routing for US military aircraft because this is not an actual airway and is outside controlled airspace.
Aircraft carriers often operate under ths TOLMO TESSO path and aircraft flying off the carrier can operate in this airspace with due regard. Sometimes they can climb very quick and there is not much time if any to move an aircraft overflying out of the area.
Therefore, no civil aircraft are permitted to fly this routing.
Aircraft carriers often operate under ths TOLMO TESSO path and aircraft flying off the carrier can operate in this airspace with due regard. Sometimes they can climb very quick and there is not much time if any to move an aircraft overflying out of the area.
Therefore, no civil aircraft are permitted to fly this routing.
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It wasn't meant serious, but thanks for the info nice to know why we can't get it. Never knew there are carriers in that area gives me something to do on the long way up.
Now i've to go through al the charts again to find another shortcut. The things you do not to get bored....
But I'm generally happy with the (transit)ATC coming from Iraq the shortcuts on the way are very very very much appreciated by me after working for 12 hrs. Yes even the mighty 1900 flies longhaul.
Coastrider26
Now i've to go through al the charts again to find another shortcut. The things you do not to get bored....
But I'm generally happy with the (transit)ATC coming from Iraq the shortcuts on the way are very very very much appreciated by me after working for 12 hrs. Yes even the mighty 1900 flies longhaul.
Coastrider26
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Ferris,
It's hard for an English speaking person to spell things as well, heh Ferris 
frequently have to repeat instructions to gents with an interesting grasp of English? Please try and imagine the diffuculty of a young National trying to understand this situation.
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The standard of ATC in the UAE has dropped in standard in the last ten years more than any other I am associated with. That includes Australasia, North and South Asia, Middle East and Western Europe.
Since the expansion of Emirates, the pressure has been on and the ATC units have not been able to handle it. My personal opinion is that they have not chosen their supervisors well and these people have allowed a policeman like attitude to pervade the controllers on the radio. I have no idea of whether or not there are sufficient numbers of staff and I am well aware of the difficulties of having two cultures in the workplace. However, I believe that whatever the difficulties are, the voice over the radio must remain calm, clear and correct. In my seventeen years of flying into Heathrow, I have never once heard a controller say anything derisive or use a tone that wasn't neutral.
As an example, most of us going there will have heard that arrogant Englishman who is usually on ground control or delivery, and on one occasion trying to do both at the same time, berating people for their English skills and/or missing a minor point from his instructions. I don't know if he volunteered to do both or was forced to run both jobs because of staff shortages. Regardless, his attitude and patronising language belong at best, as he does, in a high school classroom.
As for Ferris's point that pilots are using 'fuel shortages' to jump the queue, the truth is that UAE ATC constantly favours Emirates aircraft in the queue and the only Airline I've heard go in there with a 'minor fuel shortage' was Emirates. In fact Ferris's whole demeanour on this thread is indicative of the new UAE ATC.
To the UAE controllers who use sarcasm and patronising language to those whose first language is not English, I say go home. To those controllers who don't and live with the two cultures at work, this post is not directed at you. It is directed at the unprofessional characters among you and the supervisors who allow them to behave that way.
Since the expansion of Emirates, the pressure has been on and the ATC units have not been able to handle it. My personal opinion is that they have not chosen their supervisors well and these people have allowed a policeman like attitude to pervade the controllers on the radio. I have no idea of whether or not there are sufficient numbers of staff and I am well aware of the difficulties of having two cultures in the workplace. However, I believe that whatever the difficulties are, the voice over the radio must remain calm, clear and correct. In my seventeen years of flying into Heathrow, I have never once heard a controller say anything derisive or use a tone that wasn't neutral.
As an example, most of us going there will have heard that arrogant Englishman who is usually on ground control or delivery, and on one occasion trying to do both at the same time, berating people for their English skills and/or missing a minor point from his instructions. I don't know if he volunteered to do both or was forced to run both jobs because of staff shortages. Regardless, his attitude and patronising language belong at best, as he does, in a high school classroom.
As for Ferris's point that pilots are using 'fuel shortages' to jump the queue, the truth is that UAE ATC constantly favours Emirates aircraft in the queue and the only Airline I've heard go in there with a 'minor fuel shortage' was Emirates. In fact Ferris's whole demeanour on this thread is indicative of the new UAE ATC.
To the UAE controllers who use sarcasm and patronising language to those whose first language is not English, I say go home. To those controllers who don't and live with the two cultures at work, this post is not directed at you. It is directed at the unprofessional characters among you and the supervisors who allow them to behave that way.
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Tidan,
What utter c
p!
Firstly no airline is ever given priority over another here in Dubai and if we did, it wouldn't be to emirates who we don't get ID rates with
Secondly as stated on other posts, yes there are the odd one or two here whose RT needs improving but it is being seen to. As for the UK, think you're talking about somewhere else mate 'cos you'll find Heathrow & Gatwick controllers just as sarcastic.
Thirdly, 'minimum fuel' calls have been made by numerous airlines but never have I heard one from Emirates. Our usual reaction is to not hold that particular aircraft up but only give priority if they declare an emergency.
To all those pilots who agree with Tidan, if you bother to read the notams before coming here, if you make correct readbacks when required, if you listen out before transmitting and always remember this isn't some dozy backwater anymore, listen out on the frequency and get that big lump of tin moving off the runway as fast as possible. Then I promise to help reign in my & my colleagues sarcasm, be polite on the radio and do what ever else you feel is required to make your trip just peachy
Rgds FT
What utter c
p! Firstly no airline is ever given priority over another here in Dubai and if we did, it wouldn't be to emirates who we don't get ID rates with
Secondly as stated on other posts, yes there are the odd one or two here whose RT needs improving but it is being seen to. As for the UK, think you're talking about somewhere else mate 'cos you'll find Heathrow & Gatwick controllers just as sarcastic.
Thirdly, 'minimum fuel' calls have been made by numerous airlines but never have I heard one from Emirates. Our usual reaction is to not hold that particular aircraft up but only give priority if they declare an emergency.
To all those pilots who agree with Tidan, if you bother to read the notams before coming here, if you make correct readbacks when required, if you listen out before transmitting and always remember this isn't some dozy backwater anymore, listen out on the frequency and get that big lump of tin moving off the runway as fast as possible. Then I promise to help reign in my & my colleagues sarcasm, be polite on the radio and do what ever else you feel is required to make your trip just peachy
Rgds FT
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Ummm, Tidan, I think my post was trying to support those whose first language is not English ie. the local controllers trying to understand others whose grasp of English is, shall we say, tenuous?
I was certainly having a go at pilots who are playing PR games in potentially dangerous situations (by resisting declaring emergency), and if that rubs you the wrong way, so be it.
As stated on this and other threads (see the Middle East forum- long thread on Dubai ATC and related issues) the "englishman" is well known to all around here, and may well be better suited to a different career, but when rudeness, arrogance, callousness etc can be seen as positives in this part of the world, don't hold your breath.
In my experience, EK has no more or less 'fuel shortages' than any other airline flying in here- it's just there's a lot more EKs. The fuel thing and holding is discussed on the ME thread at length- suggest a look.
As for EK getting 'priority'- the Area guys (who do the spacing and pretty much decide winners and losers) GET NOTHING FROM EK. Do I need to say more? Why on earth would we give EK priority? Nationalistic fervour?
The 'new UAE ATC' is tired, overworked, getting less and less breaks, less days off, working meteoric traffic increases with THE SAME NUMBER OF STAFF AS YEARS AGO. But I will try and call you 'Sir' more often as you hold.
Do your homework, and I might have more time for your whinges.
I was certainly having a go at pilots who are playing PR games in potentially dangerous situations (by resisting declaring emergency), and if that rubs you the wrong way, so be it.
As stated on this and other threads (see the Middle East forum- long thread on Dubai ATC and related issues) the "englishman" is well known to all around here, and may well be better suited to a different career, but when rudeness, arrogance, callousness etc can be seen as positives in this part of the world, don't hold your breath.
In my experience, EK has no more or less 'fuel shortages' than any other airline flying in here- it's just there's a lot more EKs. The fuel thing and holding is discussed on the ME thread at length- suggest a look.
As for EK getting 'priority'- the Area guys (who do the spacing and pretty much decide winners and losers) GET NOTHING FROM EK. Do I need to say more? Why on earth would we give EK priority? Nationalistic fervour?
In fact Ferris's whole demeanour on this thread is indicative of the new UAE ATC.
I have no idea of whether or not there are sufficient numbers of staff
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lvp's
from a reliable source who was at the holding point that night.....
(dubai refueller!!!)
they called up danata on 131.6 and gave an eta of 30mins.....
why not lob into muscat where the wx was cavok...or doha, also cavok, if they had already gone past dxb.
12L was in use for departure as well as arrivals. with rvr's 1400, 1000, 400. cloud base was 200ft....at this point fog was moving in quite quickly...TAF was for 200m
Had Luigi checked the weather prior to deciding to divert to dubai? or even checked his charts to see which was the CAT 11 runway!
(dubai refueller!!!)
they called up danata on 131.6 and gave an eta of 30mins.....
why not lob into muscat where the wx was cavok...or doha, also cavok, if they had already gone past dxb.
12L was in use for departure as well as arrivals. with rvr's 1400, 1000, 400. cloud base was 200ft....at this point fog was moving in quite quickly...TAF was for 200m
Had Luigi checked the weather prior to deciding to divert to dubai? or even checked his charts to see which was the CAT 11 runway!
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Why doesn't Dubai use a C. Delivery??
Everytime I've been there it's been ground doing both, and people stepping all over each other trying to get push and start, taxi, clearances.
It gets pretty frustrating trying to get a word in edgewise, had to wait half an hour from getting start, to getting taxi, while we had to listen to a certain controller berate the poor Iranian "Assman" and he was making the point of saying "Ass" read his clearance back 4 or 5 times.
Totally unprofessional, it almost seemed like he was enjoying bringing things to a grinding halt, until someone else took over the fq and got the traffic moving.
End of Rant
Sorry for spelling
Everytime I've been there it's been ground doing both, and people stepping all over each other trying to get push and start, taxi, clearances.
It gets pretty frustrating trying to get a word in edgewise, had to wait half an hour from getting start, to getting taxi, while we had to listen to a certain controller berate the poor Iranian "Assman" and he was making the point of saying "Ass" read his clearance back 4 or 5 times.
Totally unprofessional, it almost seemed like he was enjoying bringing things to a grinding halt, until someone else took over the fq and got the traffic moving.
End of Rant
Sorry for spelling
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Never had any problems with DXB controllers. They're probably more professional then anywhere, and still find a small gap to fill in a joke. However, due to the junk flying around down there, mainly steered by our eastblock friends, with their poor grasp of the english language, I can understand if controllers there get a bit ticked off, making smart comments.
Never heard anybody on the freq "stating low fuel"....and for sure never EK, maybe it's the sh*t in my ears gain, I've been meaning to get that out for a long time now...
Never heard anybody on the freq "stating low fuel"....and for sure never EK, maybe it's the sh*t in my ears gain, I've been meaning to get that out for a long time now...
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During the busy periods we do use Clearance Delivery or Ground Movement Planning as it's now known. Just don't have the staff to man it permanently and that ain't gonna change anytime soon 
Yes the odd arse works here but nobody delibrately tries to clog things up around here. The standard of some of the pilots on the northside are just abysmal, stepping on top of each other etc.
Rgds FT
Yes the odd arse works here but nobody delibrately tries to clog things up around here. The standard of some of the pilots on the northside are just abysmal, stepping on top of each other etc.
Rgds FT
