ATCO murdered in Zurich (Merged)
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Totally shocking. I can only hope that the authorities find who committed this appaulling act ASAP.
My thoughts and best wishes go out to his family, friends and workmates.
My thoughts and best wishes go out to his family, friends and workmates.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Danny. Could you open a condolence book like the one for the crew in the Glasgow crash ?
I know these things seem meaningless at the moment but many of the personal tributes from strangers in that previous book must have given the familes a little flavour of how small and united the aviation profession can be.
I know these things seem meaningless at the moment but many of the personal tributes from strangers in that previous book must have given the familes a little flavour of how small and united the aviation profession can be.
Perhaps ATC services should be denied to East Block a/c until the culprit and his paymasters have been turned up.
And that will spare the rest of us the worry that another East Block crew will blindly follow ATC instructions opposite to a TCAS RA.
And that will spare the rest of us the worry that another East Block crew will blindly follow ATC instructions opposite to a TCAS RA.
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condolences
I know I'm not saying anything new by giving my condolences here. But wanna do that. No one deserves to be stabbed at home. And if ultimately the accident was the reason for such a shameless and brutal act: pain doesn't heal with pain. Death doesn't bring back to life.
Life's a b*@#tch.
Life's a b*@#tch.
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Perhaps ATC services should be denied to East Block a/c until the culprit and his paymasters have been turned up.
And that will spare the rest of us the worry that another East Block crew will blindly follow ATC instructions opposite to a TCAS RA
The REAL issue is that a family have been deprived of a Father and Husband.Let your thoughts dwell on that for a while.
TRULY APPALLING NEWS My thoughts are with his family and colleagues .
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I am sure most ATCOs when reading about incidents think there but for the grace of God go I.
The gentleman was I am sure far more punishing on himself than anyone else could have been.
He never deserved this.
My deepest condolences to his family friends and colleagues.
May he finally rest in peace
The gentleman was I am sure far more punishing on himself than anyone else could have been.
He never deserved this.
My deepest condolences to his family friends and colleagues.
May he finally rest in peace
There but for the grace of God go I. It could have been any of us.
Dave
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words truly defy me, and I cannot say any more than Flower did. Shocking, awful, my deepest condolences to the rest of the family. But, as already stated, children of high-ranking Russian officials.... kinda obvious who did it??
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I am full of frustration and hatress against the one/those who did it.
But also our "modern", civilizised" mass media culture is guilty. They always tried to find the big story and to critisize a company already being under pressure. Altough everyone familiar with the topic knows that there was not one single cause leading to the Ueberlingen accident. And if you want to blame someone, than you have to blame the Tupolev pilots the most.
The Danish controller already was punished for the rest of his live. He didn't diserve this.
Dani
But also our "modern", civilizised" mass media culture is guilty. They always tried to find the big story and to critisize a company already being under pressure. Altough everyone familiar with the topic knows that there was not one single cause leading to the Ueberlingen accident. And if you want to blame someone, than you have to blame the Tupolev pilots the most.
The Danish controller already was punished for the rest of his live. He didn't diserve this.
Dani
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ATCO murder
God bless his family, who must be suffering so much. It is an insult to them who have already endured more than enough.
If his death is indeed linked to the accident (so this is a revenge killing) then it suggests to me that Skyguard management must have permitted the idea of his "guilt" to remain in the public domain. Why? We will of course have to wait until the final report is published but from what I know of the accident, it seems clear to me that responsibility for the circumstances this poor man found himself in that night rest with the Skyguard management. It seems, dare I say it, cowardly of them not to have accepted that, publicly, and thereby protected their charge from such vengeance.
It is reasonable to ask therefore: If it ever happens here, will our managment accept responsibility for our high pressure working environment, with insufficient runway and stand capacity, high r/t loadings, staff shortages, commercial pressure etc. I suggest they would more likely take the view that an individual has broken the rules. That being the case we are all in this man's boat.
How sad that there can be so little compassion left in this world.
Point 4
If his death is indeed linked to the accident (so this is a revenge killing) then it suggests to me that Skyguard management must have permitted the idea of his "guilt" to remain in the public domain. Why? We will of course have to wait until the final report is published but from what I know of the accident, it seems clear to me that responsibility for the circumstances this poor man found himself in that night rest with the Skyguard management. It seems, dare I say it, cowardly of them not to have accepted that, publicly, and thereby protected their charge from such vengeance.
It is reasonable to ask therefore: If it ever happens here, will our managment accept responsibility for our high pressure working environment, with insufficient runway and stand capacity, high r/t loadings, staff shortages, commercial pressure etc. I suggest they would more likely take the view that an individual has broken the rules. That being the case we are all in this man's boat.
How sad that there can be so little compassion left in this world.
Point 4
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My sincere condolences to the family of the murdered air traffic controller.
To the rest of Skyguide: you're a bunch of wimps.
Not one iota of evidence has so far been produced linking this crime to the collision over Ueberlingen. Any policeman will tell you that the most common time for burglaries to happen is at dusk, that most in Switzerland are committed by refugees from the Balkans of whom there are a disproportionate number in that country, that a favourite break-in route is via patios or ground floor balconies, and that their favourite weapon is the knife.
It is despicable that so many Skyguide employees stayed away from work this morning, thereby causing further inconvenience and distress to the travelling public - who do after all pay their wages.
Did half of Swissair stop working after the disaster at Halifax? Did all airline flight operations grind to a halt outside the USA after September 11th? Of course not! The professionals showed their true grit by getting on with the job and not running away into the arms of some 'counsellor'.
To those who crudely criticise the Russian pilots for not following the TCAS commands: wait for the official report to be published in two month's time or read the preliminary information at:
www.bfu-web.de/berichte/02_ax001dst.pdf
Note particularly the status of communications to adjacent ACC centres and look carefully at the working practises in Skyguide at the time of the collision.
To the rest of Skyguide: you're a bunch of wimps.
Not one iota of evidence has so far been produced linking this crime to the collision over Ueberlingen. Any policeman will tell you that the most common time for burglaries to happen is at dusk, that most in Switzerland are committed by refugees from the Balkans of whom there are a disproportionate number in that country, that a favourite break-in route is via patios or ground floor balconies, and that their favourite weapon is the knife.
It is despicable that so many Skyguide employees stayed away from work this morning, thereby causing further inconvenience and distress to the travelling public - who do after all pay their wages.
Did half of Swissair stop working after the disaster at Halifax? Did all airline flight operations grind to a halt outside the USA after September 11th? Of course not! The professionals showed their true grit by getting on with the job and not running away into the arms of some 'counsellor'.
To those who crudely criticise the Russian pilots for not following the TCAS commands: wait for the official report to be published in two month's time or read the preliminary information at:
www.bfu-web.de/berichte/02_ax001dst.pdf
Note particularly the status of communications to adjacent ACC centres and look carefully at the working practises in Skyguide at the time of the collision.
Firstly I'd like to add my condolences to the growing list of those already expressed - it won't bring the gentleman back, but I hope in some small way it helps.
Secondly, I was listening to the BBC Radio 4 news this evening, and heard the controller described as "responsible for the crash" on two occasions. I felt this was so wrong that I phoned the BBC feedback number - 0870 010 0222 - and said so, with brief reasons why. The gent at the other end has registered my comments, and will feed them to the producers at BBC Radio 4 news. Whether anything happens remains to be seen. If anyone else heard the same reports I would urge them to do the same.
Secondly, I was listening to the BBC Radio 4 news this evening, and heard the controller described as "responsible for the crash" on two occasions. I felt this was so wrong that I phoned the BBC feedback number - 0870 010 0222 - and said so, with brief reasons why. The gent at the other end has registered my comments, and will feed them to the producers at BBC Radio 4 news. Whether anything happens remains to be seen. If anyone else heard the same reports I would urge them to do the same.
...the thin end thereof
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This is a truly shocking event and my deepest sympathies go out to the controller's family and friends.
I don't know what evidence there is to link the stabbing the the crash, but the British press have already suggested it was a relative of one of the children who died in the crash:
Grieving man 'kills air controller'
A victim's relative is suspected of murdering the air traffic controller who was blamed for a mid-air crash that killed 45 Russian children. Peter Nielson, who was suspended after the crash over southern Germany 19 months ago, was stabbed to death in front of his wife on the terrace of their home near Zurich airport. The killer, a heavily built man aged 50-55, went to the house, spoke briefly in broken German to the controller -- a 36-year-old Dane -- and then stabbed him, police said.
From The Times, The London Evening Standard were also running a similar headline.
Nr Fairy - Agree it is quite wrong for the BBC to describe him as 'responsible for the crash'; the circumstances that transpired for him to be on duty alone that night, while the phones were being repaired and unbeknowst to him were not working, were very unfortunate indeed. He made mistakes that night, but so do we all. No doubt he felt responsible all the same.
694c - very insensitive and unwise comments.
I don't know what evidence there is to link the stabbing the the crash, but the British press have already suggested it was a relative of one of the children who died in the crash:
Grieving man 'kills air controller'
A victim's relative is suspected of murdering the air traffic controller who was blamed for a mid-air crash that killed 45 Russian children. Peter Nielson, who was suspended after the crash over southern Germany 19 months ago, was stabbed to death in front of his wife on the terrace of their home near Zurich airport. The killer, a heavily built man aged 50-55, went to the house, spoke briefly in broken German to the controller -- a 36-year-old Dane -- and then stabbed him, police said.
From The Times, The London Evening Standard were also running a similar headline.
Nr Fairy - Agree it is quite wrong for the BBC to describe him as 'responsible for the crash'; the circumstances that transpired for him to be on duty alone that night, while the phones were being repaired and unbeknowst to him were not working, were very unfortunate indeed. He made mistakes that night, but so do we all. No doubt he felt responsible all the same.
694c - very insensitive and unwise comments.
Last edited by Wedge; 26th Feb 2004 at 03:16.
ex-Tanker
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We know that the poor man had seen the danger of the collision too late - tried to avert it and that TCAS called an opposite manouver from the one he gave.
From that point on any blame lies at the door of the pilot training organisation - on the Russian side. Always follow TCAS - I guess we know this by now - there are enough incidents to show what happens if you don't.
The pilots, as are their passengers and crews, dead. The ATCO, obviously was not killed in the crash but left alive to come to terms with a terrible realisation. The support of his family was needed.
And now this. A Russian relative of one of the killed passengers said live on TV tonight, that he thought the ATCO should have been "locked up in a bare room for 99years and not allowed visits from his children."
If that kind of understanding and sentiment is typical, then God help us all.
From that point on any blame lies at the door of the pilot training organisation - on the Russian side. Always follow TCAS - I guess we know this by now - there are enough incidents to show what happens if you don't.
The pilots, as are their passengers and crews, dead. The ATCO, obviously was not killed in the crash but left alive to come to terms with a terrible realisation. The support of his family was needed.
And now this. A Russian relative of one of the killed passengers said live on TV tonight, that he thought the ATCO should have been "locked up in a bare room for 99years and not allowed visits from his children."
If that kind of understanding and sentiment is typical, then God help us all.
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694c you are an insane son of a xxxx!!!
There has a man been stabbed and his colleagues are in shock. Naturally a lot of them are not mentally fit, so they reduce workload or/and do not show up for work. Who the fxxx cares about “inconvenience”. Safety first. And if this has to be achieved with reducing the traffic, so be it.
You compare with SR111: First of all an ATCO’s job is much more complex and demanding then sitting up front in an airplane. The concentration level is much higher. Believe me, I’ve done both! And then how many times have you flown with one of the pilots involved? Did you even know them personally? In an ACC you see and work with your FRIENDS and colleagues every single day.
I truly hope we have never shared cockpit in an SR aircraft. If we did I spit on that day!!!!!
There has a man been stabbed and his colleagues are in shock. Naturally a lot of them are not mentally fit, so they reduce workload or/and do not show up for work. Who the fxxx cares about “inconvenience”. Safety first. And if this has to be achieved with reducing the traffic, so be it.
You compare with SR111: First of all an ATCO’s job is much more complex and demanding then sitting up front in an airplane. The concentration level is much higher. Believe me, I’ve done both! And then how many times have you flown with one of the pilots involved? Did you even know them personally? In an ACC you see and work with your FRIENDS and colleagues every single day.
I truly hope we have never shared cockpit in an SR aircraft. If we did I spit on that day!!!!!
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Everybody jumping to conclusions and linking this tragic event to the midair collision for which the atc fellow was supposedly "blamed" which has as of yet not been established ...as mentioned above it takes a chain of events, all the "holes align" so to speak, for a tragedy to occur..so lets let the police do their job, and the aviation investigators do theirs before we all make assumptions...
