Damaged Thomas Cook 757 Lyon
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Floppy.
Ok Its probably just my head thats the wrong shape (or too big
) I'll try it again on one of our early 80's aircraft next time Im at work.
Anyhow Expidite is right its a moot point. You cant see them in normal ops anyhow. Just makes it a bit of a bummer to be responsible. still thats aviation for ya.
Old aeroplane I used to fly had lights down from each wingtip (canted out and forward.) So at night at least you could always see a 12"X2" rectangle of light. Made it easy to work out where the wingtip was going to go. Shame I've never seen it elsewhere.
Ok Its probably just my head thats the wrong shape (or too big
) I'll try it again on one of our early 80's aircraft next time Im at work.Anyhow Expidite is right its a moot point. You cant see them in normal ops anyhow. Just makes it a bit of a bummer to be responsible. still thats aviation for ya.
Old aeroplane I used to fly had lights down from each wingtip (canted out and forward.) So at night at least you could always see a 12"X2" rectangle of light. Made it easy to work out where the wingtip was going to go. Shame I've never seen it elsewhere.
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Picture at www.justplanes.com (Airline news dated 29/1/04.)
Following text accompanies:
A Boeing 757 'G-JMAB' operating flight TCX235 into Lyon on Saturday was told to find its own
way to parking C41 after landing on runway 18L and struck a pole. It is estimated that the
aircraft will be grounded for approx 2 months at a cost of around 5 million Euros. (Foto Nicolas F.)
A Boeing 757 'G-JMAB' operating flight TCX235 into Lyon on Saturday was told to find its own
way to parking C41 after landing on runway 18L and struck a pole. It is estimated that the
aircraft will be grounded for approx 2 months at a cost of around 5 million Euros. (Foto Nicolas F.)
Plumbum Pendular
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If the aircraft is moving under its own power, batman or not, it is the commanders responsibility, no doubt about it.
Those of you who are flying around in command and do not know this need a reality check!!
Now the bit I am unsure about is the push back, is the commander responsible then if you hit something?
Those of you who are flying around in command and do not know this need a reality check!!
Now the bit I am unsure about is the push back, is the commander responsible then if you hit something?
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Here's something else to think about.
Yesterday, the Thomas Cook B757 fleet manager put out an internal statement that he believed that the aircraft WAS on the taxiway centre line when it's wing tip struck the flood light pole.
Still keen to throw the crew to the wolves?
Yesterday, the Thomas Cook B757 fleet manager put out an internal statement that he believed that the aircraft WAS on the taxiway centre line when it's wing tip struck the flood light pole.
Still keen to throw the crew to the wolves?
Ut Sementem Feeceris
fmgc said:
"If the aircraft is moving under its own power, batman or not, it is the commanders responsibility, no doubt about it."
So why bother with batmen / marshallers then? If they marshall you in and whilst following THEIR orders you hit the wing how can that be your fault? What is the legal status / authority of a marshaller ?
It sounds like it boils down to "follow my guidance but if you smack the wing / nose / tail you're on your own because you are the Commander. "
Anyone who's been to Zakynthos (ZTH/LGZA) will know that the apron is tiny. Basically a square with just enough room for one aircraft (B757/A321) in each corner and just enough space to taxi up the middle. The stands require you to taxi nose in and then swing 180° to nose out to allow you to taxi straight out. The perimeter (which is VERY close to the wing tip (or tail - limiting turn radius for the A321))) is surrounded by pylons, huts, hedges etc. If you don't get the turn right then you're stuck - there's no tugs.
This must be why we get paid so much money
If you get pushed into a blast fence during push-back you are "in Command" but how on earth can you be held responsible?Presumably it comes down to who is moving the aircraft - PIC or tug driver.
Let's all be careful out there - A4
"If the aircraft is moving under its own power, batman or not, it is the commanders responsibility, no doubt about it."
So why bother with batmen / marshallers then? If they marshall you in and whilst following THEIR orders you hit the wing how can that be your fault? What is the legal status / authority of a marshaller ?
It sounds like it boils down to "follow my guidance but if you smack the wing / nose / tail you're on your own because you are the Commander. "
Anyone who's been to Zakynthos (ZTH/LGZA) will know that the apron is tiny. Basically a square with just enough room for one aircraft (B757/A321) in each corner and just enough space to taxi up the middle. The stands require you to taxi nose in and then swing 180° to nose out to allow you to taxi straight out. The perimeter (which is VERY close to the wing tip (or tail - limiting turn radius for the A321))) is surrounded by pylons, huts, hedges etc. If you don't get the turn right then you're stuck - there's no tugs.
This must be why we get paid so much money
If you get pushed into a blast fence during push-back you are "in Command" but how on earth can you be held responsible?Presumably it comes down to who is moving the aircraft - PIC or tug driver.
Let's all be careful out there - A4
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I've been told the skipper was making his way to stand, but had not reached the apron. ie No marshaller to be seen.
The aircraft was about to go down said taxiway when they realised it may be a tad narrow, so they checked with ATC if they are able to proceed. On two occaisions they were given the all clear by ATC, so they went. (It appears on reflection the taxiway was available for nothing much larger than an ERJ)
So you have a mistake on the skippers part, but if you've been told you can go down there and cannot see the wing tips, then there are mitigating circumstances.
HS
The aircraft was about to go down said taxiway when they realised it may be a tad narrow, so they checked with ATC if they are able to proceed. On two occaisions they were given the all clear by ATC, so they went. (It appears on reflection the taxiway was available for nothing much larger than an ERJ)
So you have a mistake on the skippers part, but if you've been told you can go down there and cannot see the wing tips, then there are mitigating circumstances.
HS
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jonboy38, On the B757-300, it's not only the "swept wing growth" you need to worry about when turning this aircraft on the ground.
It's the growth behind you.
The B753 tail describes the largest arc in a turn, not the wing, and yes, it is taught at Thomas Cook, at least.
It's the growth behind you.
The B753 tail describes the largest arc in a turn, not the wing, and yes, it is taught at Thomas Cook, at least.
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Batman in Charge
Some while ago there was a court case / CAA v ??? when a Captain was punished for ignoring a marshaller somewhere in England. Can not remember the precise details, sorry.
Perhaps Flying Lawyer could put his 1/2 euro into this discussion.
Thats all from me, thank you....
Perhaps Flying Lawyer could put his 1/2 euro into this discussion.
Thats all from me, thank you....
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In the 80's in Vienna a Jordanian Tristar ripped a 20 foot gash in the first class of a 747.The Taxyway markings were found to be out by approximately 10 feet.No one injured and it looked bad, but just goes to show it does happen.
