Continued U.S interfering with foreign airlines
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Something true!
Reciprocal laws don't mean "hardship" Duke...it means "equality".
The "rest of the world" is bigger than USA.
Went to Musée du Louvre on Sunday, had a chance to come in before10am, could see a few painting fro Cranach, Breughel and others, lucky to find a seat in a cafeteria at noon, and left the place with difficulty, encountering millions of people mainly from abroad : if US citizens stay home, that will be bad for them, but don't worry for Tourism in France, they will find customers from everywhere else as it is the first world destination.
The "rest of the world" is bigger than USA.
Went to Musée du Louvre on Sunday, had a chance to come in before10am, could see a few painting fro Cranach, Breughel and others, lucky to find a seat in a cafeteria at noon, and left the place with difficulty, encountering millions of people mainly from abroad : if US citizens stay home, that will be bad for them, but don't worry for Tourism in France, they will find customers from everywhere else as it is the first world destination.
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US-VISIT
Got about 20 pages on the US-VISIT thing last week at work. There will be an Exit Procedure as well eventually. There wil be self-service kiosks where your fingerprint (and passport to, I think) will be scanned. This will of course be air side (sterile area).
Just ask if you have more questions on this matter.
Just ask if you have more questions on this matter.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Slight aside but relevant with the comment attached 'US will loose trade';
My boss a well known and respected Russian, ex cosmonaut, ex test pilot, advisor to Russian and Moscow Govt. etc. who is also funny enough featured/pictured on a US Airforce Website detailing top world aviators...
We are planning and invited on a business trip to the USA to see a major civil aircraft manufacturer (only is one) for preliminary talks on orders for 5 new aircraft in next 24 months...we have formal letters of invitation etc. etc.
His VISA application is refused no cohesive reason given, and even the fact that the USAF respect and acknowledge him as one of the worlds best aviators makes any odds...
Order is now going to Airbus, he and his political mentors are not very happy, and the USA can stick it
My boss a well known and respected Russian, ex cosmonaut, ex test pilot, advisor to Russian and Moscow Govt. etc. who is also funny enough featured/pictured on a US Airforce Website detailing top world aviators...
We are planning and invited on a business trip to the USA to see a major civil aircraft manufacturer (only is one) for preliminary talks on orders for 5 new aircraft in next 24 months...we have formal letters of invitation etc. etc.
His VISA application is refused no cohesive reason given, and even the fact that the USAF respect and acknowledge him as one of the worlds best aviators makes any odds...
Order is now going to Airbus, he and his political mentors are not very happy, and the USA can stick it
What stuns me about the arrogance of the US in all this is that we poor Brits are subjected to delays, screening, searches, single file at the toilets on board, fingerprinting and photography and when we step landside at the airport in US, we are arriving in a country where any nutcase can carry a gun - and many do and use them!
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Grandpa,
The only problem with "equality" is the USA's apparant interpretation of the word, ie everyone plays by our rules or there is no game.
Might does not always equal right as the many differing opinions here seem to say.
There are many in the UK who see the continuing delay of the Washington flight as a political move for BAs reticence to carry Sky Marshalls. This may not be the case but that's how it appears.
The only problem with "equality" is the USA's apparant interpretation of the word, ie everyone plays by our rules or there is no game.
Might does not always equal right as the many differing opinions here seem to say.
There are many in the UK who see the continuing delay of the Washington flight as a political move for BAs reticence to carry Sky Marshalls. This may not be the case but that's how it appears.
Airbubba from "Rockytop, Tennesee, USA" says :-
"Go ahead, make my Day"
A quote taken from a movie, which features a rogue cop, with little regard for the rules, running loose in public, with about the biggest piece of hand artillery available in the US today.
Don't you think you are missing the point here and playing into the hands of your detractors a little bit ??
"Go ahead, make my Day"
A quote taken from a movie, which features a rogue cop, with little regard for the rules, running loose in public, with about the biggest piece of hand artillery available in the US today.
Don't you think you are missing the point here and playing into the hands of your detractors a little bit ??
aka Capt PPRuNe
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OK, can the NRA lobby from the US stop the Hollywood rhetoric about "our way or the highway" and we 'Euro liberal tree huggers' will stop being so cynical and ironic as it is causing too much load on the PPRune server. 
It is fairly obvious to those of us who are airline pilots and crew who have operated to and from the USA that the cultural divide is huge. We will be doing what is necessary to keep the flights operating as we need our jobs but that doesn't mean that we have to be happy about what is percieved to be diktats eminating from the US who are relative newcomers to what we call aviation security. 
It is fairly obvious to those of us who are airline pilots and crew who have operated to and from the USA that the cultural divide is huge. We will be doing what is necessary to keep the flights operating as we need our jobs but that doesn't mean that we have to be happy about what is percieved to be diktats eminating from the US who are relative newcomers to what we call aviation security.
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How many Sky Marshals?
To me aircraft security must be established on the ground rather than in the air.
Firstly has anyone truely calculated the chance of an explosive decompression of the aircraft when several bullets pierce the pressurised cabin?
Then how many sky marshals will you need to have on board....The hijackers will simply send a martyr to the cockpit door, they'll get bundled/killed by the sky marshal who has then exposed themselves to the rest of the PAX......and the rest of the hijackers. The hijackers then get the gun and that is really when you think "why the hell did we put guns on aircraft???"
Firstly has anyone truely calculated the chance of an explosive decompression of the aircraft when several bullets pierce the pressurised cabin?
Then how many sky marshals will you need to have on board....The hijackers will simply send a martyr to the cockpit door, they'll get bundled/killed by the sky marshal who has then exposed themselves to the rest of the PAX......and the rest of the hijackers. The hijackers then get the gun and that is really when you think "why the hell did we put guns on aircraft???"
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Ranger - Your correction is quite right. A reword is in order, i.e.
Country A Aircraft operates in Country B
Country B Aircraft operates in Country A
And your point about A and B working together to find a mutually workable practice is right too.
I think the impression here is that "working together" at the moment is that A tells B, C, D etc to comply.
Country A Aircraft operates in Country B
Country B Aircraft operates in Country A
And your point about A and B working together to find a mutually workable practice is right too.
I think the impression here is that "working together" at the moment is that A tells B, C, D etc to comply.
Union Goon
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Cjekovice
This has been covered, you probably are aware of that but just incase.
Bullet holes are unlikely to cause an explosive decompression, the holes they make are smaller than the ouflow valve, even if there is some ripping of the skin as well. Infact an aircraft is one huge leaky mess that huge volumes of air are pumped into faster than they can run out.
But the bullets used by the skymarshals should be low velocity rounds that will not penetrate the skin of the aircraft. But even if the cabin does depressurize, that is probably a GOOD thing in that scenario as everyone will go to sleep! Furthermore if the cabin is depressurized then any bomb a hijacker might be carrying loses most of its dangerous force (the damage to a pressurized cabin is much much greater when a bomb goes of than to an unpressurized one, hence the very first step of most bomb on board checklists is to bring the aircraft down to its currect cabin altitude, in other words depressurize the cabin without tripping a possible baro detonator sensor)
But last, a puny sky marshal gun won't help them access the cockpit (there are plenty of other far more usefull things in the cabin for breaching the door) so nothing is lost against the ultimate price which is Hijacker gets in cockpit airplane is now a threat to people on the ground and will be treated accordingly.
Cheers
Wino
This has been covered, you probably are aware of that but just incase.
Bullet holes are unlikely to cause an explosive decompression, the holes they make are smaller than the ouflow valve, even if there is some ripping of the skin as well. Infact an aircraft is one huge leaky mess that huge volumes of air are pumped into faster than they can run out.
But the bullets used by the skymarshals should be low velocity rounds that will not penetrate the skin of the aircraft. But even if the cabin does depressurize, that is probably a GOOD thing in that scenario as everyone will go to sleep! Furthermore if the cabin is depressurized then any bomb a hijacker might be carrying loses most of its dangerous force (the damage to a pressurized cabin is much much greater when a bomb goes of than to an unpressurized one, hence the very first step of most bomb on board checklists is to bring the aircraft down to its currect cabin altitude, in other words depressurize the cabin without tripping a possible baro detonator sensor)
But last, a puny sky marshal gun won't help them access the cockpit (there are plenty of other far more usefull things in the cabin for breaching the door) so nothing is lost against the ultimate price which is Hijacker gets in cockpit airplane is now a threat to people on the ground and will be treated accordingly.
Cheers
Wino
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Well isn't this interesting, it appears there's not as much instantaneous support for this sick idea the States has as might have been hoped for. Gee what a surprise.
I say again, there's about 300 million of them and a whole lot more of everyone else. Uncle Sam has serious problems the day we all finally figure out all we have to do is rearrange the math a bit and then they're suckin hind t*t.
Pull your heads out of your arses for pete's sake, you're not gonna get your way all the time. Especially not in international airspace.
I say again, there's about 300 million of them and a whole lot more of everyone else. Uncle Sam has serious problems the day we all finally figure out all we have to do is rearrange the math a bit and then they're suckin hind t*t.
Pull your heads out of your arses for pete's sake, you're not gonna get your way all the time. Especially not in international airspace.
Cool as a moosp
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Wino I usually respect you posts whether accurate or not but I must have a go at your last.
Yes, you are probably right to say that a standard bullet hole will not cause a catastrophic failure of a pressure hull but there have been few empirical tests to prove this. Yes, the weapons that are sometimes used and those proposed by the US for marshall use are good for breaking flesh but not good at breaking airframes. There are however several countries that use standard police weapons in flight, which is seriously scary.
But please do not try to placate the thread with <But even if the cabin does depressurize, that is probably a GOOD thing in that scenario as everyone will go to sleep!>
Everyone does not go to sleep in a depressurisation (I use the 's' instead of the 'Zee'), as I am sure you know from your experience. Those who are not traumatised into hyperventilation into their masks will be unconscious. This is not sleep. Trained individuals intent on control of the cabin will be able to use their useful conciousness to effect.
As to an explosion of a device into a pressurised or unpressurised hull, there is little difference. Work done in the UK showed that it is the shear of the explosive and not the overpressure that makes the difference. Work it out yourself. How much gas can a kilo of solid make? You re-pressurise very quickly.
Anyway I am off topic here so back to the point.
Who's aeroplane is it anyway???
Yes, you are probably right to say that a standard bullet hole will not cause a catastrophic failure of a pressure hull but there have been few empirical tests to prove this. Yes, the weapons that are sometimes used and those proposed by the US for marshall use are good for breaking flesh but not good at breaking airframes. There are however several countries that use standard police weapons in flight, which is seriously scary.
But please do not try to placate the thread with <But even if the cabin does depressurize, that is probably a GOOD thing in that scenario as everyone will go to sleep!>
Everyone does not go to sleep in a depressurisation (I use the 's' instead of the 'Zee'), as I am sure you know from your experience. Those who are not traumatised into hyperventilation into their masks will be unconscious. This is not sleep. Trained individuals intent on control of the cabin will be able to use their useful conciousness to effect.
As to an explosion of a device into a pressurised or unpressurised hull, there is little difference. Work done in the UK showed that it is the shear of the explosive and not the overpressure that makes the difference. Work it out yourself. How much gas can a kilo of solid make? You re-pressurise very quickly.
Anyway I am off topic here so back to the point.
Who's aeroplane is it anyway???
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Went to Musée du Louvre on Sunday, had a chance to come in before10am, could see a few painting fro Cranach, Breughel and others...
Dave
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I have a question about the 'locked cockpit door' policy:
What is to stop a potential terrorist/hijacker from waiting until one of the flight crew leave the cockpit to go to the lavatory?
To assure you were near the cockpit door you could simply buy a first class ticket.
Thanks
What is to stop a potential terrorist/hijacker from waiting until one of the flight crew leave the cockpit to go to the lavatory?
To assure you were near the cockpit door you could simply buy a first class ticket.
Thanks
What is to stop a potential terrorist/hijacker from waiting until one of the flight crew leave the cockpit to go to the lavatory?
The inconvenience/nonsense of this US policy is irrelevant. It will not stop me, a law abiding citizen from travelling to the US. Who the hell are terrorists to tell me when and where I should be afraid to travel? We can't allow the extremists of this world the satisfaction.
Oh yeah....its a pain the ass but hey, thats life.
Oh yeah....its a pain the ass but hey, thats life.