BA 747-400 Engine fire, Mauritius 23/11/03???
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BA 747-400 Engine fire, Mauritius 23/11/03???
I understand that Speedbird 747-400 had an engine fire on take-off this morning rwy 14, Mauritius this morning and returned to the ramp.
Don't know if it was a warning or actual.
Any more news from BA???
Don't know if it was a warning or actual.
Any more news from BA???
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PlaneCrazi,
Don't tell me you are a sad plane spotter.
Question: what do you think the difference will be if the 74 takes off with 3 engines or 4 when you are looking at it from other side of the fence?
A man of your credentials should know!
I await your reply!
Don't tell me you are a sad plane spotter.
Question: what do you think the difference will be if the 74 takes off with 3 engines or 4 when you are looking at it from other side of the fence?
A man of your credentials should know!I await your reply!
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I have been on a few three engine ferry flights all they do is increase power on the other side on take off.The only drawback on landing is the fire engine escort.Other wise everything is normal.
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mad_dog
It is possible that the take-off could look different from the other side of the fence, depending on how far the aircraft is going. Public Transport flights have many safeguards built in to their performance figures. As no passengers or cargo are allowed on ferry flights, they are not deemed to be Public Transport, and therefore these safeguards are not accounted for. There is separate performance data for these flights. The crew might examine the far end of the runway rather more closely than they would normally.
The take-off procedure is to apply derated thrust on the symmetric engines and then gradually increase the thrust on the asymmetric live engine so that derated thrust is achieved by Vmcg. If a second engine fails then the performance becomes rather interesting. The clean-up will be commenced at a minimum height of 400ft, and could take a while. If I was in Mauritius I would certainly go to watch, but then I am a bit of a spotter.
youbreakemifixem
I've done many three-engine ferries, and have never yet needed to be met by the fire services.
Airclues
It is possible that the take-off could look different from the other side of the fence, depending on how far the aircraft is going. Public Transport flights have many safeguards built in to their performance figures. As no passengers or cargo are allowed on ferry flights, they are not deemed to be Public Transport, and therefore these safeguards are not accounted for. There is separate performance data for these flights. The crew might examine the far end of the runway rather more closely than they would normally.
The take-off procedure is to apply derated thrust on the symmetric engines and then gradually increase the thrust on the asymmetric live engine so that derated thrust is achieved by Vmcg. If a second engine fails then the performance becomes rather interesting. The clean-up will be commenced at a minimum height of 400ft, and could take a while. If I was in Mauritius I would certainly go to watch, but then I am a bit of a spotter.
youbreakemifixem
I've done many three-engine ferries, and have never yet needed to be met by the fire services.
Airclues
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Mad_Dog
No plane spotter, but it would be interesting to watch a low level climb past the lagoon in Mauritius.
Most of our ratings are done on 3 engines of a 4 engine jet, but all are landing, go around and V1-GO!. A departure is different and must be highly co-ordinated and have specially trained crew.
I don't know much of a 747-400 and was wondering if it will fly direct to LHR or say via Nairobi due to a weight limitation.
No plane spotter, but it would be interesting to watch a low level climb past the lagoon in Mauritius.
Most of our ratings are done on 3 engines of a 4 engine jet, but all are landing, go around and V1-GO!. A departure is different and must be highly co-ordinated and have specially trained crew.
I don't know much of a 747-400 and was wondering if it will fly direct to LHR or say via Nairobi due to a weight limitation.
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Rookie Question
Pse excuse Cabin Crew question.
If a heavy 747 lost on a three engine ferry sector (as above) were to lose a second engine on the same side as the other one, say during the initial climb, would it stay airborne? I can understand that it can fly on three, or even two, but two on the same side at a high weight and relatively low speed? - just curious and thanks for any response.
P.S. My a/c types just have the two, so I don't think we do single engine ferries, or else we do but they don't tell us!
If a heavy 747 lost on a three engine ferry sector (as above) were to lose a second engine on the same side as the other one, say during the initial climb, would it stay airborne? I can understand that it can fly on three, or even two, but two on the same side at a high weight and relatively low speed? - just curious and thanks for any response.
P.S. My a/c types just have the two, so I don't think we do single engine ferries, or else we do but they don't tell us!
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Tightslot
When you lose the second engine on the same side, so long as you are just about clean (let's say flap 5 or less, and say 230kts) you should be ok, even at 350+tonnes. Turning towards the live engines requires addditional rudder. If you are lower/slower than this you have BIG problems, and will probably not stay airborne.
Note: these figures are illustrative and approximate.
When you lose the second engine on the same side, so long as you are just about clean (let's say flap 5 or less, and say 230kts) you should be ok, even at 350+tonnes. Turning towards the live engines requires addditional rudder. If you are lower/slower than this you have BIG problems, and will probably not stay airborne.
Note: these figures are illustrative and approximate.
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suggest you may find that a 4eng aircraft departing on three with no pax or bags may well be higher over the upwind boundary than you would expect and since it`s a standard positioning procedure why would you want to be met by fire crews? . . . also suggest that with the loss of a second donk the only real danger may be inthe event of a go-around if hot,high and heavy.
. . . mind you if the other 2 packed up you`d be up there all day !
. . . mind you if the other 2 packed up you`d be up there all day !
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Remember a mate sending me some pics a few years back, of a far eastern carrier 74 classic, (poss air china) that had landed in Germany. They had been operating a revenue sector carrying a large number of pax, whilst operating on 3engs only from the start. The u/s engine had, had the blades secured with pax seat belts to stop the windmilling effect - obviously pre departure. Whatsmore, was that there was severe fan blade damage to one of the remaining so called good engines. If I recall correctly German Aviation Authority grounded the a/c immediatly and ordered that at least 3 engines were replaced before it would be aloud to fly again.
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B.A. had a b747-400 take off from Nirita and an engine went bang.The crew made sure everything was safe and flew onto Helisinki.This is because the the aircraft burns more fuel on three engines than four.Maybe someone can tell me why this is.It wasthen 3 eng ferried back to LHR with the engine siezed so there was no windmilling but apparently this was safe to do so.
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TightSlot
On a normal, 4-engine take-off, the aircraft is certified to lose the power from one engine. As TopBunk says, there are no guarantees after the falure of a second engine until the aircraft is clean. However, on a 3-engine ferry the take-off weight is vastly reduced so as to allow a second failure at an earlier stage. The aircraft is climbed to 400 feet and then flown level while the flaps are retracted. So long as the speed is above 2-eng VMCA then there is no problem with losing two on the same side. During the training on the somulator the small group of pilots who are ferry qualified practice the failure of a second engine just after Vr.
BOEINGBOY1
Those photos were shown on PPRuNe. I believe that they turned out to be a hoax.
Airclues
On a normal, 4-engine take-off, the aircraft is certified to lose the power from one engine. As TopBunk says, there are no guarantees after the falure of a second engine until the aircraft is clean. However, on a 3-engine ferry the take-off weight is vastly reduced so as to allow a second failure at an earlier stage. The aircraft is climbed to 400 feet and then flown level while the flaps are retracted. So long as the speed is above 2-eng VMCA then there is no problem with losing two on the same side. During the training on the somulator the small group of pilots who are ferry qualified practice the failure of a second engine just after Vr.
BOEINGBOY1
Those photos were shown on PPRuNe. I believe that they turned out to be a hoax.
Airclues
Those photos were shown on PPRuNe. I believe that they turned out to be a hoax.
Nothing unusual about tieing down a rotor to prevent it from windmilling, and causing vibrations, when you 3 engine ferry back to a repair base
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Believe it is usual to remove the fan blades for the ferry.....certainly the case for the -22 RB211s. Usually there is no transportation cases available down route so itthey end up strapped one each to pax seats.
Was invovled in a similar situation a few years back...... 3 eng ferry arriving back at base for immediate engine change. The ongoing enging was minus some parts , notably the IDG and Hyd pump so these were to be removed from the U/S engine....( has to be done before dropping as impossible to get access when engine is in the stand ). Ever tried to work on a big lump of metal that has been cold soaked at around minus 50 deg C for 8 hours plus ????? Perishing !!!
Was invovled in a similar situation a few years back...... 3 eng ferry arriving back at base for immediate engine change. The ongoing enging was minus some parts , notably the IDG and Hyd pump so these were to be removed from the U/S engine....( has to be done before dropping as impossible to get access when engine is in the stand ). Ever tried to work on a big lump of metal that has been cold soaked at around minus 50 deg C for 8 hours plus ????? Perishing !!!