BA crew test positive for alcohol (Sentences)
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Is it really true that the alcohol blood tests came back negative? If so, I hope the guys involved are talking to Messrs. Sue Grabbit and Runne about suing those self important, hypocritical and irresponsible reptiles in the media, especially the Sun.
As for the internal politics and staff relations at BA, I thought the situation in my own company was bad enough, but BA does seem to have a particular problem in this area. I have many friends flying for BA, and all mention a climate of fear and intimidation. Not conducive to Flight Safety, IMHO.
As for the internal politics and staff relations at BA, I thought the situation in my own company was bad enough, but BA does seem to have a particular problem in this area. I have many friends flying for BA, and all mention a climate of fear and intimidation. Not conducive to Flight Safety, IMHO.
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This thread has typefied more than any I can think of the pompous, pointless preaching that a majority of posters here indulge in.
To the handfull that said 'innocent till proven guilty' bravo, the rest of you should hang your oversized heads in shame. But I doubt if you would even understand why.
To the Captain involved I hope you get a good lawyer that will savage that paper the way they savaged your BA career.
To the handfull that said 'innocent till proven guilty' bravo, the rest of you should hang your oversized heads in shame. But I doubt if you would even understand why.
To the Captain involved I hope you get a good lawyer that will savage that paper the way they savaged your BA career.
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BA crew sentenced
Captain and senior CC sentenced in a Norwegian court today, reciving 6 months and 45 days in jail respectivly.
The 2Ps case have not appeared in court yet.
Nrk.no (Norwegian only)
This is regarding the incident on 11. Nov 2003 at Oslo Gardermoen. (2P and senior CC drunk when boarding the plane)
The 2Ps case have not appeared in court yet.
Nrk.no (Norwegian only)
This is regarding the incident on 11. Nov 2003 at Oslo Gardermoen. (2P and senior CC drunk when boarding the plane)
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British Airways Pilot Jailed for Six Months
A Norwegian court today sentenced the pilot of a British Airways plane to six months in prison for preparing to fly even though members of his crew were drunk.
The flight’s chief air stewardess was sentenced to 45 days in prison for being drunk on duty.
Neither was present at the trial this week, and both have the right to appeal. A similar case against the co-pilot was still pending.
All three resigned from British Airways shortly after the November 11, 2003, incident.
The Eidsvoll District Court found that the pilot, William A. McAuliffe, 51, was sober but must have known his co-pilot, David J. Ryan, 27, was intoxicated when preparing for take-off from Oslo’s airport.
“The court notes that McAuliffe (as captain) was the highest authority on board the aircraft and was responsible for his personnel being in a condition that allowed them to perform their jobs,” the ruling said.
The case stems from a British Airways flight scheduled to leave from Oslo to London with 55 passengers. British Airways ground personnel suspected some of the crew had been drinking and called police, who went on board the Airbus A320 to conduct breath tests.
The flight was cancelled, and police took McAuliffe, Ryan, and Michelle Giannandrea, 50, to hospital for blood tests.
Under Norwegian law, flight crews must have a blood alcohol level of less than 0.2 parts per million.
Ryan is accused of having a blood alcohol level of 1.02 parts per million, while Giannandrea’s level was 1.34 parts per million.
McAuliffe tested negative for alcohol, but the court said ignoring the intoxicated state of crew members was a very grave offence, and a threat to air safety.
The court said hotel personnel told McAuliffe that Ryan had returned to his room at about 3am, appearing “drunk.”
McAuliffe went to Ryan’s room twice to wake him, at least once throwing water in his face and shaking him, the ruling said. The pilots then raced to the airport for the 8am flight.
McAuliffe “knew that a crewman was under the influence of alcohol, but did nothing about it,” the court said.
The case against Ryan was postponed because prosecutors had not been able to advise him of the charges ahead of the trial in Eidsvoll, about 30 miles north of Oslo, the ruling said.
It was not immediately clear if the other two defendants would appeal. If their convictions are upheld, Norway could ask for them to be extradited if they don’t surrender voluntarily.
British Airways spokeswomen Cathy L. West in London said the airline has a zero-tolerance policy on drinking before flying, and that all three resigned before facing any company disciplinary action.
“This was a rare incident but one incident is one too many,” she said.
“The airline recently introduced a new drugs and alcohol policy for all staff to adhere to which includes testing of staff.”
Latest News:
A Norwegian court today sentenced the pilot of a British Airways plane to six months in prison for preparing to fly even though members of his crew were drunk.
The flight’s chief air stewardess was sentenced to 45 days in prison for being drunk on duty.
Neither was present at the trial this week, and both have the right to appeal. A similar case against the co-pilot was still pending.
All three resigned from British Airways shortly after the November 11, 2003, incident.
The Eidsvoll District Court found that the pilot, William A. McAuliffe, 51, was sober but must have known his co-pilot, David J. Ryan, 27, was intoxicated when preparing for take-off from Oslo’s airport.
“The court notes that McAuliffe (as captain) was the highest authority on board the aircraft and was responsible for his personnel being in a condition that allowed them to perform their jobs,” the ruling said.
The case stems from a British Airways flight scheduled to leave from Oslo to London with 55 passengers. British Airways ground personnel suspected some of the crew had been drinking and called police, who went on board the Airbus A320 to conduct breath tests.
The flight was cancelled, and police took McAuliffe, Ryan, and Michelle Giannandrea, 50, to hospital for blood tests.
Under Norwegian law, flight crews must have a blood alcohol level of less than 0.2 parts per million.
Ryan is accused of having a blood alcohol level of 1.02 parts per million, while Giannandrea’s level was 1.34 parts per million.
McAuliffe tested negative for alcohol, but the court said ignoring the intoxicated state of crew members was a very grave offence, and a threat to air safety.
The court said hotel personnel told McAuliffe that Ryan had returned to his room at about 3am, appearing “drunk.”
McAuliffe went to Ryan’s room twice to wake him, at least once throwing water in his face and shaking him, the ruling said. The pilots then raced to the airport for the 8am flight.
McAuliffe “knew that a crewman was under the influence of alcohol, but did nothing about it,” the court said.
The case against Ryan was postponed because prosecutors had not been able to advise him of the charges ahead of the trial in Eidsvoll, about 30 miles north of Oslo, the ruling said.
It was not immediately clear if the other two defendants would appeal. If their convictions are upheld, Norway could ask for them to be extradited if they don’t surrender voluntarily.
British Airways spokeswomen Cathy L. West in London said the airline has a zero-tolerance policy on drinking before flying, and that all three resigned before facing any company disciplinary action.
“This was a rare incident but one incident is one too many,” she said.
“The airline recently introduced a new drugs and alcohol policy for all staff to adhere to which includes testing of staff.”
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Amazing isn't it. You have people out there in street who kill people whilst drunk, driving a car which they are disqualified from driving. Usually, there's no insurance, no MOT etc. Some defence lawyer stands up and bleats on about how his client has had a hard life etc, I won't bore you with the rest.
The court then lets the defendant go with a slap on the wrist, suspended sentence of some description or whatever. But not prison. There is usually a lot of wailing about "Justice in this country", a few politicians come out of the woodwork to gnash there teeth, but what happens? Give it six month, it's quietly forgotten about, the law doesn't change, a person is still dead and a family is still grieving.
Now, I in no way condone what happened in Norway. The Capt, FO were complete idiots for getting into the state which they did. BUT, they didn't kill anyone. They didn't hurt anyone. I appreciate they might have had they actually got airborne in the state they were in, but the fact is they didn't. Six months for being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle is unheard of, it would never happen. So six months for being drunk on the ground in a plane seems a bit excessive to me.
As for the CC getting 45 days. How absurd is that? What was he/she going to do, mow someone down with her trolley? If that's the case then the police will have to patrol every bloody supermarket to ensure boozed up customers aren't creating havoc in the frozen food section.
The sentences handed down here are not about justice. Loss of one's career for a night of drunken japes is a heavy enough sentence. This sentence is about politics.
Like I said earlier, I in no way condone what happened. But sentences really should reflect the events of an offence. I repeat what I said earlier. No one got hurt. The crew have lost their livelihoods. Isn't that punishment enough?
The court then lets the defendant go with a slap on the wrist, suspended sentence of some description or whatever. But not prison. There is usually a lot of wailing about "Justice in this country", a few politicians come out of the woodwork to gnash there teeth, but what happens? Give it six month, it's quietly forgotten about, the law doesn't change, a person is still dead and a family is still grieving.
Now, I in no way condone what happened in Norway. The Capt, FO were complete idiots for getting into the state which they did. BUT, they didn't kill anyone. They didn't hurt anyone. I appreciate they might have had they actually got airborne in the state they were in, but the fact is they didn't. Six months for being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle is unheard of, it would never happen. So six months for being drunk on the ground in a plane seems a bit excessive to me.
As for the CC getting 45 days. How absurd is that? What was he/she going to do, mow someone down with her trolley? If that's the case then the police will have to patrol every bloody supermarket to ensure boozed up customers aren't creating havoc in the frozen food section.
The sentences handed down here are not about justice. Loss of one's career for a night of drunken japes is a heavy enough sentence. This sentence is about politics.
Like I said earlier, I in no way condone what happened. But sentences really should reflect the events of an offence. I repeat what I said earlier. No one got hurt. The crew have lost their livelihoods. Isn't that punishment enough?
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Strikes me the sentance on the CC was proportionate. She was well over the drink drive limit. Her responsibilty in the cabin is for safety, not trolley pushing which is a secondary duty.
Let us all learn from this that drinking is not to be tolerated.
Years ago I allowed a drunk CC to position back with us "sick", but she was still in uniform and although not directly working was a huge embarrassment. Now I hope I would just leave her behind.
Let us all learn from this that drinking is not to be tolerated.
Years ago I allowed a drunk CC to position back with us "sick", but she was still in uniform and although not directly working was a huge embarrassment. Now I hope I would just leave her behind.
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DamienMK
The CC being intoxicated could have caused problems in the event of an emergency or an evacuation. I don't think mowing someone down with the trolley really comes into it.
On saying that I do think the sentences are a bit harsh.
The CC being intoxicated could have caused problems in the event of an emergency or an evacuation. I don't think mowing someone down with the trolley really comes into it.
On saying that I do think the sentences are a bit harsh.
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Read it again!
What it actually says is:
How sad that when 'tested negative for alcohol', your career ends up in ashes and you get sentenced to prison?
Now, I in no way condone what happened in Norway. The Capt, FO were complete idiots for getting into the state which they did.
McAuliffe tested negative for alcohol, but the court said ignoring the intoxicated state of crew members was a very grave offence, and a threat to air safety.
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>>How sad that when 'tested negative for alcohol', your career ends up in ashes and you get sentenced to prison?<<
The old days of overlooking a drunk crewmember and joking about it in the bar later are gone I'm afraid. Times have changed. And, when you're the captain, you do take a little responsibility for what happens on your aircraft from my experience. I realize he was probably trying to cover for his troops but once he let the flight get under way he was committing a crime, in some countries at least. The usual defenses of I've been through rehab, we didn't know we were going flying, it was ripe fruit and mouthwash didn't seem to work this time.
Wasn't this the guy that "resigned", proving his innocence, according to some of the viewpoints here?
The old days of overlooking a drunk crewmember and joking about it in the bar later are gone I'm afraid. Times have changed. And, when you're the captain, you do take a little responsibility for what happens on your aircraft from my experience. I realize he was probably trying to cover for his troops but once he let the flight get under way he was committing a crime, in some countries at least. The usual defenses of I've been through rehab, we didn't know we were going flying, it was ripe fruit and mouthwash didn't seem to work this time.
Wasn't this the guy that "resigned", proving his innocence, according to some of the viewpoints here?
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Damienmk
Yes, amazing isn't it.
Amazing that an ex-policeman should come out with such drivel about drivers who kill whilst drunk and/or disqualifed being "let go with a slap on the wrist, suspended sentence of some description or whatever. But not prison."
That's as accurate as your comment that "the Capt, FO were complete idiots for getting into the state which they did."
Do you really think sentences should be less if pilots with excess alcohol are caught before they take off?
Why?
With one exception, in all the excess alcohol cases discussed here in recent times the pilots have been breath-tested before taking off. The only exception is that Manchester 'hard landing' nonsense where a passenger thought the pilots must have been drinking and some police constable(s) decided to breath-test both pilots.
(Both tested negative.)
Do you seriously think a driver 'drunk in charge' of a motor vehicle is in any way comparable to a pilot "drunk on the ground in a plane" before departure?
Or that the position of a cabin attendant is in any way comparable to a customer in a supermarket? True, they both push trolleys but, in addition to their inflight service role, CC also have a safety role - particularly in an emergency.
"This sentence is about politics."
What on earth does that mean? What politics? Whose politics?
"The crew have lost their livelihoods. Isn't that punishment enough?"
I think a substantial fine or community service is more appropriate in most excess alcohol cases, but that's not how the courts in various countries see it - read the threads about various incidents.
I think sending this Captain to prison at all was too harsh, and six months was outrageous. Losing his livelihood would have been more than sufficient punishment. I sincerely hope he finds another job when he's released.
I also think sending the CC to prison was harsh. However, given that pilots caught even fractionally over the limit have been sent to prison for much longer than that in various countries, it's proportionate. And, if the press reports are correct, she does appear to have been the CSD or Purser in charge of the cabin.
Yes, amazing isn't it.
Amazing that an ex-policeman should come out with such drivel about drivers who kill whilst drunk and/or disqualifed being "let go with a slap on the wrist, suspended sentence of some description or whatever. But not prison."
That's as accurate as your comment that "the Capt, FO were complete idiots for getting into the state which they did."
Do you really think sentences should be less if pilots with excess alcohol are caught before they take off?
Why?
With one exception, in all the excess alcohol cases discussed here in recent times the pilots have been breath-tested before taking off. The only exception is that Manchester 'hard landing' nonsense where a passenger thought the pilots must have been drinking and some police constable(s) decided to breath-test both pilots.
(Both tested negative.)Do you seriously think a driver 'drunk in charge' of a motor vehicle is in any way comparable to a pilot "drunk on the ground in a plane" before departure?
Or that the position of a cabin attendant is in any way comparable to a customer in a supermarket? True, they both push trolleys but, in addition to their inflight service role, CC also have a safety role - particularly in an emergency.
"This sentence is about politics."
What on earth does that mean? What politics? Whose politics?
"The crew have lost their livelihoods. Isn't that punishment enough?"
I think a substantial fine or community service is more appropriate in most excess alcohol cases, but that's not how the courts in various countries see it - read the threads about various incidents.
I think sending this Captain to prison at all was too harsh, and six months was outrageous. Losing his livelihood would have been more than sufficient punishment. I sincerely hope he finds another job when he's released.
I also think sending the CC to prison was harsh. However, given that pilots caught even fractionally over the limit have been sent to prison for much longer than that in various countries, it's proportionate. And, if the press reports are correct, she does appear to have been the CSD or Purser in charge of the cabin.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 24th Jun 2005 at 21:00.
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Absolutely...
Well said JetLegs.... The responsibilities which are attached to command exceed merely staying sober! Another very unfortunate day for the profession and the industry. As for "careers finished"..... mmm.... well, not according to crew-room chatter. bm
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I think sending this Captain to prison at all was too harsh, and six months was outrageous.
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Big problem for captains
How can the captain of an aircraft decide if a crewmember is over the limit ?
The alcohol limit is so low that any man in the steet would not judge a person to be "drunk" if they were just over that limit and the captain has not got any testing equipment to make a judgment.
Now just what do you think would happen if a captain stopped a crewmember flying and they managed to prove that they were not over the limit ? will the captain get hauled in front of the courts on a deformation charge ?
If the captain is to be responsable for the conduct of other adults when off duty then the authoritys must provide captains with the powers enforce this responasbility.
The alcohol limit is so low that any man in the steet would not judge a person to be "drunk" if they were just over that limit and the captain has not got any testing equipment to make a judgment.
Now just what do you think would happen if a captain stopped a crewmember flying and they managed to prove that they were not over the limit ? will the captain get hauled in front of the courts on a deformation charge ?
If the captain is to be responsable for the conduct of other adults when off duty then the authoritys must provide captains with the powers enforce this responasbility.
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Sorry A and C but that is why you get the extra money for command.
On this occasion the reported claims that the Captain had to visit and revisit the bedroom of the First Officer and eventually throw water in his face to wake him may have been a pointer that all was not well.
On this occasion the reported claims that the Captain had to visit and revisit the bedroom of the First Officer and eventually throw water in his face to wake him may have been a pointer that all was not well.
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sammypilot
In this instance maybe you got a point and maybe not but A and C was looking at the bigger picture not just this one case.
Why do cops on Prune always see things in black and white?
They never think outside the box.
I know all cops aint like that, so maybe we just get the junior ranks here.
In this instance maybe you got a point and maybe not but A and C was looking at the bigger picture not just this one case.
Why do cops on Prune always see things in black and white?
They never think outside the box.
I know all cops aint like that, so maybe we just get the junior ranks here.
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I think these days you are just as likely to have to wake someone due to them being completely knackered. Waking someone doesn't mean the water thrower automatically assumes that their target is over the limit. Will the tabloids now run the headline, 'Pilot imprisoned & loses career for being sober'. No, didn't think so.
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Rainboe, yet another specious post from your keyboard.
The jailterm imposed on the captain is longer than the one imposed on the CSD/purser. Now unless my memory is really failing me rainboe, you are the one always whingeing about how overpaid CC are for the totally unimportant job they do on-board. You're the one always stressing how unlikely it is that in the course of their career CC will ever have to actually strutt their stuff in an emergency, as opposed to pilots who have to make grave and life-altering decisions every working day.
But now suddenly it's unfair to give an all important captain a longer sentence than a useless CSD?
Try to strive for some consistency my dear chap, 't is either one argument or the other, not both.
He is punished far more than a crewmember who actually tested over the limit.
But now suddenly it's unfair to give an all important captain a longer sentence than a useless CSD?
Try to strive for some consistency my dear chap, 't is either one argument or the other, not both.