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BA crew test positive for alcohol (Sentences)

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BA crew test positive for alcohol (Sentences)

Old 26th Jun 2005, 06:29
  #181 (permalink)  

I Have Control
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Off for a drink.

Crikey, reading this lot has upset me, amd i'm on duty in 5 hours. So just time for a few beverages mates, to steady the nerves and chill the soul.

Nobody can operate under this sort of pressure without recourse to a drink, before and after work at the very least.

I always keep a bottle handy in my flight bag, cos the thirst can strike pretty damn rapidly. And I'm not alone.

Guess this is off to the papers, courtesy of the criminally incompetent journos. well good luck to you, you hypocritical boozy crooks.
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Old 26th Jun 2005, 10:51
  #182 (permalink)  
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From a passenger's point of view, it seems to me that the sentences are appropriate.

The Captain is just that The Captain , not The Pilot and he is the person in overall charge of the aircraft, crew and passengers. IMHO, he ignored at least some of his responsibilities, although it is possible he was unaware of the CSD's level of intoxication. But was he proposing not to leave the flight deck for so much as loo break during the flight, knowing that the First Officer might not be 100%?

Equally, CSD's are responsible for rather more than pushing a trolley! Like everything that happens the other side of the locked cockpit door! Not least getting the passengers off in the unlikely event of a problem, dealing with sick passengers (heart attacks etc). Rare but they do happen.

CSD's are by definition not juniors and (again IMHO) this one really should have known better. I haven't been to Norway for a few years now and it's a great country but (ignoring the precise legal limits for a minute) they're not exactly famous for their tolerance towards booze when driving cars or flying aircraft.

As it happens, I come into contact with quite a lot of crew and their individual attitudes towards work, alcohol intake etc vary hugely. One of my best mates is a Purser and I have rarely met a more dedicated, conscientious or responsible! person.

Bit boring when they have two beers then head off to bed at 10pm cos they have an early pickup but contrast that with those out partying till 3am and I know who'd I rather have looking after my safety on a flight. Or that of my offspring flying unmin. Or my mum. It's not rocket science I'm afraid.

My two pence worth.

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Old 26th Jun 2005, 14:09
  #183 (permalink)  
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Thanks for your help and very quick reponse.
PPRuNe is an amazing website.

Frustratingly, that report just like the others I've seen, repeats the court's criticism of the Captain but doesn't say what specific offence against Norwegian law he was found guilty of committing.

"From a passenger's point of view ......."
I'm also only a passenger in this context. I disagree with you, but it's inevitable that opinions will vary.
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Old 26th Jun 2005, 14:32
  #184 (permalink)  
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Well how about the passengers. Dont they also have a duty of care not to be under the influence while onboard an aircraft.

Lets take this to its logical conclusion and ban booze completely from aviation. Lets have all the passengers breathalised before they board.
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Old 26th Jun 2005, 18:49
  #185 (permalink)  
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In this specific case it may be that the court had defintie evidence to suggest the the Capt knew his crew mwmbers were drunk. At least I certainly hope so. Because otherwise its just crazy.

Bear in mind that not all airlines even have their crew staying in the same hotel, so how can you reasonably be expected to know what your crew are up to? You might be on a different trip schedule, even between Captain and F/O, and only meet one another 20 minutes before pushback, with the law enforecment officer just a few footsteps behind you. How are you supposed to know if the other person is over a limit that requires a machine to test a very small number?

I'm so knackered on the early checkins I'm stumbling around like a brain dmaged gerbil, and its got nothing to do with booze.

This is just one more example of the kind of thing I'm happy to be leaving behind in 2 months time.

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Old 27th Jun 2005, 00:01
  #186 (permalink)  
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Thread Creep

Just going slightly off the topic.... with the tight rostering and long days most of us are working to, fatigue is likely to become more of a factor in the future than alcohol in terms of incidents.

Let us hope the EU Flight Time Limitation proposals don't become law. For those of you who are not aware, for the sake of "harmonisation", the EU plan is to allow even longer days, to ignore the effects of crossing time zones and night flying. It is not based on any physiological study (unlike current CAA regs), just someone's good idea!!

If this becomes a reality, then the skies will be full of fatigued pilots, who are by law legally allowed to fly (unless the declare themselves unfit). Of course, the airlines won't mind the EU plan, they will get more hours out of their pilots.

BALPA have been campaigning against the proposals, but it's all gone a bit quiet at the moment.

As a passenger, would you want to fly with sober but tired out pilots??
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 08:46
  #187 (permalink)  
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As a passenger, would you want to fly with sober but tired out pilots??
Yes, rather than fly with wide-awake pi$$ed ones!
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 08:46
  #188 (permalink)  
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Fatigue can also be measured in "equivalent to an alcohol level of". I believe if up for 17 hours at 3 a.m. is equal to 50mg/100ml?

Saves a lot in allowances!

Seriously though, how many have flown knackered, or with knackered crew?

Perhaps if Captains started getting locked up for that then campaigns such as BALPA's Flying Fatigued would get more prominence and pilots worldwide would be far more empowered to put a stop to the issue the airlines and authorities don't seem that keen to tackle.

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Old 27th Jun 2005, 09:51
  #189 (permalink)  
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Another well researched article, this time in today's Daily Mail from columnist Peter McKay:

Flying a bit too high...

You have to wonder how difficult it must be to handle modern jet airliners when British Airways pilot William McAuliffe,55, of Dublin, felt OK about flying an Airbus319 from Oslo to London while being six times over the alcohol limit.
Before going on duty his first officer David Ryan , was too drunk to speak and could only be woken at his hotel by having water thrown over his face. Yet both of them - together with their binge companion, stewardess Michele Giannandrea, 50, eight times over the limit - were prepared to take their chances.
Airbus jets are famous for their 'fly by wire' controls. Maybe they're even more automated than we're told.
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 10:58
  #190 (permalink)  
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The article by Peter McKay is blatantly libellous. I hope Captain McAuliffe sues the journalistic toad for evey penny he has!
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 11:18
  #191 (permalink)  
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oh, if McKay said that..............hang him high.

Capt. McAuliffe has been through more than enough already
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 12:02
  #192 (permalink)  
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Maybe someone should give the Editor a heads up ....

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Old 27th Jun 2005, 12:13
  #193 (permalink)  
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Unfortunately the offending item does not seem to be in the on-line addition so difficult unless you have the paper.
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 14:11
  #194 (permalink)  
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I can confirm that EPRman has the correctly shown the jots of Peter McKay as written in the Mail today.
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Old 28th Jun 2005, 09:28
  #195 (permalink)  
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As a passenger, would you want to fly with sober but tired out pilots??
Good point KN. Nope, definitely not. Or crew for that matter.

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Old 28th Jun 2005, 10:24
  #196 (permalink)  
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Writing Journalistic Rubbish ...

You have to wonder how difficult it must be to write a newspaper article these days when Dreary Mail columnist Peter McKrap felt OK publishing more of his usual drivel.

Before writing the article, he realised what a sad existence his own life was and, unable to contribute anything constructive to society, realised there was easy money to be made by uninformed comment. Typically, a serious journalist would perform at least some research whereas there are no limits for a columnist - with zero research they can just take their chances and apologise later when they are wrong.

Gutter press columnists are famous for their automated responses. Given all one needs to do is react with superfluous observations to any news piece, maybe they are even more stupid than they appear.
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Old 29th Jun 2005, 09:29
  #197 (permalink)  
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One wonders how many of the Dm's readership realise that even at 4 times over the limit, you could still legally drive a car in the UK.

Silly me, there I was thinking the truth rather than sensationalism was the hack's goal.
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Old 29th Jun 2005, 12:08
  #198 (permalink)  
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As well as giving the editor a head's up.......maybe someone should let Capt. McAuliffe know about it as well. Maybe he hasn't seen it?

I'd sure as hell want to know if someone dragged my name through the dirt.
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