Virgin Skipper has a Flipper... NOT
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Virgin Skipper has a Flipper
From the Daily Telegraph :
Interesting !!
Virgin passenger barred for ironic remark to pilot
By Paul Marston, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 08/11/2003)
A Virgin Atlantic captain has been reported to the authorities for barring a passenger who made an ironic comment when the pilot turned up late.
Clive Warshaw was one of 300 travellers booked on a Miami to Heathrow flight that was delayed more than 13 hours after the scheduled pilot suffered an eye infection.
Michele and Clive Warshaw
The passengers were put up in hotels and told to return for an 8am take-off with a replacement captain.
By 7.20am all the passengers were assembled in the departure lounge but no flight or cabin crew had appeared.
The first of the flight attendants entered the lounge 10 minutes later - to be met by a round of mocking applause.
Another 15 minutes elapsed before the substitute pilot, Capt Simon Crook, approached the gate.
As he walked through the lounge, there was renewed clapping from about six passengers including Mr Warshaw, who said: "Well done."
Mr Warshaw, who had paid £3,500 for a business class return, said he was amazed by the captain's reaction.
"He scowled but did not say anything until he reached the gate," Mr Warshaw said. "Then he spoke to one of the ground crew, turned round and pointed toward me. The ground staff told me he would not let me board.
"I couldn't believe it. I just wanted to get home. I asked the ground manager to tell the captain I would apologise. He went into the cockpit but the captain refused to accept the apology.
"Then they had to hold up the flight further while they took my bags off."
The aircraft eventually departed - with Mr Warshaw's wife, Michele, travelling alone - at 9.30am, a total of 15 hours late.
"I wasn't the only one to make a comment," said Mr Warshaw, of Hampstead, north London. "But I think he singled me out because my suit and white hair made me easily identifiable."
He has lodged a complaint with the US Federal Aviation Administration.
Three other passengers have written to the airline, complaining about Mr Warshaw's treatment.
However, Virgin said Capt Crook "exercised his responsibilities correctly".
An official said: "The captain felt that Mr Warshaw's behaviour suggested that he could be disruptive during the flight. He felt it was more sensible to carry him on a later flight to let him calm down."
The company said an offer of some form of redress to Mr Warshaw was being prepared.
By Paul Marston, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 08/11/2003)
A Virgin Atlantic captain has been reported to the authorities for barring a passenger who made an ironic comment when the pilot turned up late.
Clive Warshaw was one of 300 travellers booked on a Miami to Heathrow flight that was delayed more than 13 hours after the scheduled pilot suffered an eye infection.
Michele and Clive Warshaw
The passengers were put up in hotels and told to return for an 8am take-off with a replacement captain.
By 7.20am all the passengers were assembled in the departure lounge but no flight or cabin crew had appeared.
The first of the flight attendants entered the lounge 10 minutes later - to be met by a round of mocking applause.
Another 15 minutes elapsed before the substitute pilot, Capt Simon Crook, approached the gate.
As he walked through the lounge, there was renewed clapping from about six passengers including Mr Warshaw, who said: "Well done."
Mr Warshaw, who had paid £3,500 for a business class return, said he was amazed by the captain's reaction.
"He scowled but did not say anything until he reached the gate," Mr Warshaw said. "Then he spoke to one of the ground crew, turned round and pointed toward me. The ground staff told me he would not let me board.
"I couldn't believe it. I just wanted to get home. I asked the ground manager to tell the captain I would apologise. He went into the cockpit but the captain refused to accept the apology.
"Then they had to hold up the flight further while they took my bags off."
The aircraft eventually departed - with Mr Warshaw's wife, Michele, travelling alone - at 9.30am, a total of 15 hours late.
"I wasn't the only one to make a comment," said Mr Warshaw, of Hampstead, north London. "But I think he singled me out because my suit and white hair made me easily identifiable."
He has lodged a complaint with the US Federal Aviation Administration.
Three other passengers have written to the airline, complaining about Mr Warshaw's treatment.
However, Virgin said Capt Crook "exercised his responsibilities correctly".
An official said: "The captain felt that Mr Warshaw's behaviour suggested that he could be disruptive during the flight. He felt it was more sensible to carry him on a later flight to let him calm down."
The company said an offer of some form of redress to Mr Warshaw was being prepared.
Interesting !!
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The Skipper was abso-bloody-lutely correct and I congratulate him for having the backbone to do what he did. He removed an obvious troublemaker from his flight.
Better off than on.
Better Safe than Sorry.
Well done sir!
Better off than on.
Better Safe than Sorry.
Well done sir!
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Impossible to judge if this was warranted unless there at the time.Sarcastic applause/comments shouldnt normally merit such a response,but its a post 911 world we live in and airlines are jumpy.
I would add that this Captain must have been "in" with
management.A normal line skipper would be a brave man indeed to take such a decision,esp in a Brit airline,where oldboy network rules.
I would add that this Captain must have been "in" with
management.A normal line skipper would be a brave man indeed to take such a decision,esp in a Brit airline,where oldboy network rules.
Well I have no idea what the details of this incident are, but only the post above.
It is precisely this sort of publicity that would put potential future passengers off from flying a specific carrier.
15 hours of delay followed by further demeaning from the carrier's representative.
It would be in the carriers interest to ensure that an adequate rebuttal makes the press.
It is precisely this sort of publicity that would put potential future passengers off from flying a specific carrier.
15 hours of delay followed by further demeaning from the carrier's representative.
It would be in the carriers interest to ensure that an adequate rebuttal makes the press.
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He removed an obvious troublemaker from his flight.
What a crock. Have you formed this opinion from what you have read here, or are you privy to more information?
If you base your comment on what you have read here, then what happened to the other passengers. Or, was it singling out a potential ringleader of a group of trouble makers? As Wing Co points out, why is the company offering some form of redress? Or, is it just VS being spineless?
Or, was it simply some very frustrated passengers who had been delayed more than 13 hours. Passengers who having "vented" their frustration in an open environment,would have posed no more of a threat than Mr. Cattle Class who will drink more than he should. As an aside, was there a consideration of the knock-on effect of the reaction of Mrs. Warshaw, and the potential for her to become disruptive on the flight as a direct result of being p*ssed off at what happend?
Jesus, as has been mentioned on the other thread about this, a captain is responsible for his/her aircraft. But, isn't this going a little too far. Or, was it that Captain felt a little embarressed by the taunt and spat the dummy out of the pram?
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Right on Jerry...Let's face it if all of EZ's Skippers had a similar "Grip on reality" they wouldn't carry any passengers at all would they??
Guy sounds like he may have more problems than his victim based on the facts as displayed to date.....
What a dork!
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I imagine this skipper would have some sort of disciplinary action taken against him - and frankly it would be difficult to argue against.
We all face situations where slights of one kind or another are given us and the sensible person recognises that in most cases they should just let the insult pass. And particularly, if someone is representing a company he should be gracious to frustrated customers. To pull rank and make a 'security' issue out of this situation is at best unwise. If the facts are as stated, and we do not necessarily know the whole story here, then this captain has badly let down his company and seriously mishandled the situation. An opportunity to pour oil on troubled waters with a few generous words was missed and instead a good dose of lighted petrol was poured on instead! He has caused needless insult to an important customer and will no doubt be called to account for his unacceptable behaviour.
We all face situations where slights of one kind or another are given us and the sensible person recognises that in most cases they should just let the insult pass. And particularly, if someone is representing a company he should be gracious to frustrated customers. To pull rank and make a 'security' issue out of this situation is at best unwise. If the facts are as stated, and we do not necessarily know the whole story here, then this captain has badly let down his company and seriously mishandled the situation. An opportunity to pour oil on troubled waters with a few generous words was missed and instead a good dose of lighted petrol was poured on instead! He has caused needless insult to an important customer and will no doubt be called to account for his unacceptable behaviour.
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 11th Nov 2003 at 06:21.
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Hmm.... not entirely convinced. How many times has a flight crew been commended for their excellent skills in a newspaper for saving so many lives on board after an incident and then been royally rogered behind the scenes?
I'd say a one of sir dick's is pumping up a stiffy for him as we speak hehe!
I'd say a one of sir dick's is pumping up a stiffy for him as we speak hehe!
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The VS skipper should get a grip on reality me thinks!!
As a pilot with a major charter operator, I have lost count of the number of times we turn up to the gate and are greeted by jeers, shouts and smart comments. Usually emitting from the shaven headed, tattooed and heavily earingged lads, wearing football shirts, shorts and trainers that occupy the seats nearest to the jet bridge.
Unnecessary comments ,yes, ill disciplined behaviour, yes.
I have to say I can usually just put it down to a bit too much alcohol and holiday hi-jinks. Thats all there is too it.
Occasionally there are very disruptive pax who should of course be denied boarding for all the reasons that have been previously said in the above threads.
Sounds to me that the VS skipper just got pi$$ed off with being clapped and jeered and snapped when a pax made a smart comment to him.
As a pilot with a major charter operator, I have lost count of the number of times we turn up to the gate and are greeted by jeers, shouts and smart comments. Usually emitting from the shaven headed, tattooed and heavily earingged lads, wearing football shirts, shorts and trainers that occupy the seats nearest to the jet bridge.
Unnecessary comments ,yes, ill disciplined behaviour, yes.
I have to say I can usually just put it down to a bit too much alcohol and holiday hi-jinks. Thats all there is too it.
Occasionally there are very disruptive pax who should of course be denied boarding for all the reasons that have been previously said in the above threads.
Sounds to me that the VS skipper just got pi$$ed off with being clapped and jeered and snapped when a pax made a smart comment to him.
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It would have had more effect if he had just turned and left the gate lounge again, and made the miserable whingers wait another 18 hours for the next captain.
I bet they would have kept quiet then.
I bet they would have kept quiet then.
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Here here, Captain Crook! I suspect more to this than meets the eye.
Such is the ill-mannered character of this wretch that I think he / she should have perhaps been made to swim back to the UK.
And to think that they write for one of the finest News papers in the world! Stop the rubbish!
P.S Freeway- Would you rather all air travel descended to the lowest denominator? I work for the major Charter operator and have never come across the jeering, etc. you talk of.
Such is the ill-mannered character of this wretch that I think he / she should have perhaps been made to swim back to the UK.
And to think that they write for one of the finest News papers in the world! Stop the rubbish!
P.S Freeway- Would you rather all air travel descended to the lowest denominator? I work for the major Charter operator and have never come across the jeering, etc. you talk of.
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No wonder this fine profession has gone to the dogs, when a bunch of louts are supported over our own colleagues.
You've all become weak kneed crawlers and ar5e lickers.
Makes me sick to hear this crap. Shame on the lot of you.
You've all become weak kneed crawlers and ar5e lickers.
Makes me sick to hear this crap. Shame on the lot of you.
Fascinating stuff to conjecture over and easy as hell to slip into Opinion gear, isn't it. On the allegations presented any one of them, captain or offending pax, could be right. Or both of them. Perhaps we'll all luck out and some level-headed witness who saw it all first-hand will elucidate. In the meantime, no wonder countries go to war against each other!
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As has already been stated, it is impossible to judge this one without being there.....
Maxalt..think it through again will you...if I was judgemental I would assume by your drunken tone that you are also a lout.
Maxalt..think it through again will you...if I was judgemental I would assume by your drunken tone that you are also a lout.
Well I would be interested in more facts if they are ever made available.
On the other hand from reading the posts above you would think that all that is needed is a few facts and black & white opinions follow.
geeez I would hate to be in a crowd among you all and watch the fists begin to fly
On the other hand from reading the posts above you would think that all that is needed is a few facts and black & white opinions follow.
geeez I would hate to be in a crowd among you all and watch the fists begin to fly
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Going by what has been reported on this thread:-
What a great example of paranoia!
I hoped that this was limited to the U.S. of A. Sadly it seems that has spread ……
Does the captain in question not have a sense of humour?
Get a grip on reality, ….. please!
What a great example of paranoia!
I hoped that this was limited to the U.S. of A. Sadly it seems that has spread ……
Does the captain in question not have a sense of humour?
Get a grip on reality, ….. please!