French Age 60 Rule
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French Age 60 Rule
Has anyone out there managed to negotiate an exemption from the French Age 60 rule, or alternatively, does anyone know of someone else whose has managed to achieve such an exemption.
If so I'd appreciate any relevant info, in particular the DGAC address that I might write to to obtain such an exemption for myself. I imagine that the French equivalent of the UK CAA Flight Crew Licencing department would be the place, but I'm open to any (polite) suggestions.
Thanks in anticipation,
Packsonflite
If so I'd appreciate any relevant info, in particular the DGAC address that I might write to to obtain such an exemption for myself. I imagine that the French equivalent of the UK CAA Flight Crew Licencing department would be the place, but I'm open to any (polite) suggestions.
Thanks in anticipation,
Packsonflite
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packsonflite French Age 60 Rule
You state you are from 30W!! Are you sure it is not cloud cuckoo land???
Surely you know the French brought this in to satisfy the Unions.
I would be surprised to hear they would consider individual exemptions.
You state you are from 30W!! Are you sure it is not cloud cuckoo land???
Surely you know the French brought this in to satisfy the Unions.
I would be surprised to hear they would consider individual exemptions.
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Farnair Switzerland
You might want to call Farnair Switzerland and ask them how they did it; I know that they had an over-60-captain operating an ATR72 over France between BSL and CGN recently.
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126.9
Many thanks for that, I'll see what I can find out.
thegypsy
30W is where the heart is but the UK is where the home is. I am aware that the rules was set to placate the unions, but the fact is I have information from the CAA that indicates that individuals can apply for exemptions.
I've heard that there are several European airlines that have pilots over age 60 operating over and into France.
But thanks for your comments anyway. Not sure where cloud cuckoo land is, what's the main airport?
Packs
Many thanks for that, I'll see what I can find out.
thegypsy
30W is where the heart is but the UK is where the home is. I am aware that the rules was set to placate the unions, but the fact is I have information from the CAA that indicates that individuals can apply for exemptions.
I've heard that there are several European airlines that have pilots over age 60 operating over and into France.
But thanks for your comments anyway. Not sure where cloud cuckoo land is, what's the main airport?
Packs
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French Age 60 Rule
Does anyone know the real reason the French apply the 60 limit? Because people are living longer and are therefore having a negative financial effect as pensioners and also because the financial world is producing poorer investments there are obvious pressures for everyone to work longer. Presumably well paid French pilots would prefer to retire to generous pension schemes at 60 and this would be the union preference. But surely officialdom/Air France would have the opposite view? Could it be that French pilots enjoy some preferential tax treatment because they retire earlier than normal and so if they retire at a normal age they would lose that tax advantage?
JAR-FCL 1.060 shows Italy having the same exception to the age limit as France. Does anyone know if Italy will give individuals permission to continue past 60?
Thanks for any information
JAR-FCL 1.060 shows Italy having the same exception to the age limit as France. Does anyone know if Italy will give individuals permission to continue past 60?
Thanks for any information
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france 60
Does this apply to overfly as well as destination !
We all discovered how it applied to Destination when Crossair sent a 60 year old to france on his birthday - but how would the french know the age of an overflight crew member unless he had to land !!!!!!!!!!! Yes its a risk but....
We all discovered how it applied to Destination when Crossair sent a 60 year old to france on his birthday - but how would the french know the age of an overflight crew member unless he had to land !!!!!!!!!!! Yes its a risk but....
The reference is: Circular AIC A 21/00 AUG17 issued by the Direction Generale de l'Aviation Civile.
The English translation states: ' . . . in conformity with ICAO Annex 1 . . . acting as a commander on international air transport flights in French airspace is only authorised to those captains who are under the age of 60.'
Interestingly it specifically refers in the English and French versions to 'international' flights so one assumes that a French captain over 60 could command an internal public transport flight.
The English translation states: ' . . . in conformity with ICAO Annex 1 . . . acting as a commander on international air transport flights in French airspace is only authorised to those captains who are under the age of 60.'
Interestingly it specifically refers in the English and French versions to 'international' flights so one assumes that a French captain over 60 could command an internal public transport flight.
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Europeans and JAR
This directive flies in the face of JAR rules and should be gone after by the JAR authorities soonest.
Because of it at least one company I know had to schedule its older UK based captains to fly to Scotland and Athens all the time, where as the Swiss branch had to chop you at 60, 'cos you don't go far from GVA without overflying France.
How French unions could benefit from foreign operators limiting its Captains to 60 I don't see. I am also sure that certain companies either don't know of this restriction or don't respect it.
As has been done to death on another thread, people age very differently from each other - some guys are out of shape by fifty and some are fit as fiddles at seventy these days. My opinion is that any pilot fulfilling the medical and skill requirements (which are pretty exacting) should be allowed to pursue his career.
And if you subscribe to a united Europe, you should accept all the rules (yeah - Euro as well).
Because of it at least one company I know had to schedule its older UK based captains to fly to Scotland and Athens all the time, where as the Swiss branch had to chop you at 60, 'cos you don't go far from GVA without overflying France.
How French unions could benefit from foreign operators limiting its Captains to 60 I don't see. I am also sure that certain companies either don't know of this restriction or don't respect it.
As has been done to death on another thread, people age very differently from each other - some guys are out of shape by fifty and some are fit as fiddles at seventy these days. My opinion is that any pilot fulfilling the medical and skill requirements (which are pretty exacting) should be allowed to pursue his career.
And if you subscribe to a united Europe, you should accept all the rules (yeah - Euro as well).
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This 60 year old rule was introduced by the unions when AIR FRANCE took over AIR INTER.
AIR FRANCE pilots had always retired at 60 but AIR INTER pilots not and the big deal was about seniority list.
By making it illegal to work above 60 the AIR FRANCE unions solved the problem the usual way, that is by depriving all the non AF pilots the right to work after 60.
Thank you AF pilots...
AIR FRANCE pilots had always retired at 60 but AIR INTER pilots not and the big deal was about seniority list.
By making it illegal to work above 60 the AIR FRANCE unions solved the problem the usual way, that is by depriving all the non AF pilots the right to work after 60.
Thank you AF pilots...
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Differences
I'd like to point out that there is not a single JAA member state, that has not filed some or other difference in regulations or procedures to the JAR requirements. The French age 60 rule, the British licence format, the Dutch licence signing by local TRE's only, the Swiss issuing Swiss ATPL's, the Italian age 60 rule, and so it goes on...
As for Flying in France over age 60; some companies do, and some companies don't. Whether it is legal or not is irrelevant when it comes down to a matter of whether your company cares or not. Farnair Switzerland don't give a hoot and routinely put an over 60 captain on the BSL-CGN route flying over France.
As for Flying in France over age 60; some companies do, and some companies don't. Whether it is legal or not is irrelevant when it comes down to a matter of whether your company cares or not. Farnair Switzerland don't give a hoot and routinely put an over 60 captain on the BSL-CGN route flying over France.
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The sad fact of life is, if a Captain aged over 60 were flying in command over French Airspace and had to divert to land on French soil, that captain puts his licence at risk if discovered by the authorities to be in breach of this daft regulation.
Until the rule is changed, or unless inpossession of an exemption (if such things are possible), a company should not put a commander in that position, and a commander should not accept a duty that puts him in that position.
Continuing to operate over France in breach of the regulation is a risk - the potential repercussions of which must be weighed up very carefully.
Until the rule is changed, or unless inpossession of an exemption (if such things are possible), a company should not put a commander in that position, and a commander should not accept a duty that puts him in that position.
Continuing to operate over France in breach of the regulation is a risk - the potential repercussions of which must be weighed up very carefully.
If a diversion could end a pilot's career, then can such a regulation easily motivate a crew to divert to a very distant airport, which might not be best for airworthiness and pilot judgement?
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Override
That's one of the reasons we're having the debate.
French are 'enforcing' no overflight for over 60s ergo limited chance of diverting to French airfied.
I doubt very much that, if legitimately flying in Northern Spain for example, but forced to divert into France, there would be a problem. They couldn't be that daft could they?
Italy permits overflight, and will accept diversion. They will not permit scheduled landings by commanders over 60.
Not sure exactly of the Portuguese position in all this.
It doesn't yet affect me but the whole over 60 issue is ridiculous.
If medically fit, and proficient to operate, what's the problem?
That's one of the reasons we're having the debate.
French are 'enforcing' no overflight for over 60s ergo limited chance of diverting to French airfied.
I doubt very much that, if legitimately flying in Northern Spain for example, but forced to divert into France, there would be a problem. They couldn't be that daft could they?
Italy permits overflight, and will accept diversion. They will not permit scheduled landings by commanders over 60.
Not sure exactly of the Portuguese position in all this.
It doesn't yet affect me but the whole over 60 issue is ridiculous.
If medically fit, and proficient to operate, what's the problem?
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Been very encouraged by the response to my original post, but would like to state the original request which was whether anyone out there has the address of the DGAC equivalent of the CAAs Flight Crew Licensing section
Packsonflite
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Division Aptitudes Techniques des Personnels Navigants
Service de la Formation Aéronautique
et du ContrôleTechnique
Direction Générale de l’Aviation Civile
50, rue Henry-Farman
75720 Paris
CEDEX 15
Service de la Formation Aéronautique
et du ContrôleTechnique
Direction Générale de l’Aviation Civile
50, rue Henry-Farman
75720 Paris
CEDEX 15
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Google..............DGAC.........address..25 seconds !
If you want things to be done quickly, go and visit them and make your request with a 357 magnum.
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