Security at LHR... A true story?
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Went through Brum a while ago and had a pair of nail scissors taken off me. She said I could put them in the hold if I wanted, The fact that we have a small axe in the flight deck as standard equipment didnt seem to sway the girl, my clippers were grounded.......
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Hey you, it has already happened, in Algeria earlier this year (think that is right). Three guys burst into the flight deck of a 737 and began beating up the pilots. The only thing to save the situation was that they did not close the door behind them so the cabin crew managed to pull them out. Imagine if they were actual terrorists and planned an attack, doing it right. What defences do we have against that? Obviously not the airport security, which is so far beyond stupid they need another word to describe it. Makes you wonder why seemingly intelligent people set up and run such an insane system. Don't they see it does not work and never will? The only people who can make a difference is the crew. The first line of defence is the cabin crew, who must know that they are the only ones who can stop a hijack or attack by a crazy. Of course the authorities have made it difficult, since the crew cannot have any weapons while the attacker is free to take on what he wants (I saw a cooking show and a knife that does not show on xray is used by top chefs that is way sharper than a metal one...shudder). Have any of you cabin crew been given training in defending the cabin? Didn't think so. Hint, a can of beans in a sock can put the bad guy down.
Even the TSA has to admit that almost as many guns are getting through as did when Argenbrite was running the show, so all the hype and expense is a total waste of effort. It reminds me of the "war" on drugs (or terror), which can also never be won, but gives government the opportunity to build up their power and influence, using my tax dollars. The second line of defence is the cockpit crew who must never under any circumstances, let any criminal onto the flight deck. Anything happens, throw the bolt and cut off comms with the cabin, land at nearest airport. Let the police handle it.
The real problem was that after Sep 11 the authorities had a chance to do it right and blew it. They decided to treat all of us as if WE were the problem, instead of the ones who needed to be protected. The real criminals are laughing on their way through "security" while the children, old ladies and crew are given the treatment.
Bah humbug says I.
Even the TSA has to admit that almost as many guns are getting through as did when Argenbrite was running the show, so all the hype and expense is a total waste of effort. It reminds me of the "war" on drugs (or terror), which can also never be won, but gives government the opportunity to build up their power and influence, using my tax dollars. The second line of defence is the cockpit crew who must never under any circumstances, let any criminal onto the flight deck. Anything happens, throw the bolt and cut off comms with the cabin, land at nearest airport. Let the police handle it.
The real problem was that after Sep 11 the authorities had a chance to do it right and blew it. They decided to treat all of us as if WE were the problem, instead of the ones who needed to be protected. The real criminals are laughing on their way through "security" while the children, old ladies and crew are given the treatment.
Bah humbug says I.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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flashlight foolishness
Oh yes my flying brethren the mighty flashlight almost gets re-routed to monkok!!......stopped at jfk whilst positioning and told my mighty big magnum flashlight was "too big" After a ridiculous discussion with security was told I could put the offending article in a locked cabinet monitored by the lead F/A........I can assure all that she was most happy to take the mighty "torch" and thus our flight could leave safe in the knowledge that should any pilot ever need a really good solid flashlight ie god forbid a ditching/double gen fail etc etc...that thanks to the brilliance and inteligence of our federally (now understaffed) tsa light shall be shed only in small doses.........I wonder what would happen if someone was to bring "replacement" axes thru security......although I was impressed by one tsa guy at the jetblue security who rambled on and on as folks filled thru the screening about no baseball or CRICKET bats allowed up top........there's a guy with smarts.....probably one of the ones who'll get dumped in the cuts........arm the bloody pilots!!
Paxing All Over The World
I agree about the martial arts issue. Only a matter of time.
What I find most useful about plastic forks is how sharp they are! On a recent VS trip, I retained the fork and, upon arrival at my sister's house, checked it against all the regular dining forks in her house. The plastic was MUCH sharper.
Since the plastic is weaker than metal, it naturally has to be sharper to make up the difference.
The other vital weapon that I take with me every time (apart from the duty free bottle of cognac) is a laptop computer. My current model is actually very light at only 1.1kg but some of the big Dell's weigh in at nearly 3kg. Imagine holding the laptop (with the screen closed) and bashing someone across the head with it?
Once TSA and British Airports Ar$eholes plc get this peice of information, I am sure that all biz pax will have their laptops placed in a secure cargo container until arrival.
What I find most useful about plastic forks is how sharp they are! On a recent VS trip, I retained the fork and, upon arrival at my sister's house, checked it against all the regular dining forks in her house. The plastic was MUCH sharper.
Since the plastic is weaker than metal, it naturally has to be sharper to make up the difference.The other vital weapon that I take with me every time (apart from the duty free bottle of cognac) is a laptop computer. My current model is actually very light at only 1.1kg but some of the big Dell's weigh in at nearly 3kg. Imagine holding the laptop (with the screen closed) and bashing someone across the head with it?
Once TSA and British Airports Ar$eholes plc get this peice of information, I am sure that all biz pax will have their laptops placed in a secure cargo container until arrival.
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Some months ago I started a similar post on the goings-on at STN. A huge response was the result. I am "pleased" to see that other airports suffer the same indignities c.q. stupidities.
But how can we stop it?
Check: Wots going on with officialdom at STN in the airports forum.
Why that got moved but this posting remains in the Rumours forum I don't know.
But how can we stop it?
Check: Wots going on with officialdom at STN in the airports forum.
Why that got moved but this posting remains in the Rumours forum I don't know.
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Great stuff guys, some classic examples of no brainers out there. However, I do try to see both sides of any situation and feel a certain sympathy for some of the Security personnel. They're not all jobsworths but do have to apply the regulations laid down by the good old DfT - hence the scissors, clippers, knives and forks fiasco. I can imagine the outcry from certain media sections if the Security personnel did miss these items and they were taken through by those nice, helpful journalists who like to test security from time to time, you know "Airport Security fail to detect banned weapons !" - I use the term weapons loosley !
Instead of whinging on and on about the airport security and the nail files, etc issues why not have a pop at the guys who are really making the rules - the Department for Transport. They're the ones issuing all the directives- and they don't give a stuff about any of the practicalities and costs.
........but I do think someone needs to have word with the guy who stopped the plastic handcuffs !!
Instead of whinging on and on about the airport security and the nail files, etc issues why not have a pop at the guys who are really making the rules - the Department for Transport. They're the ones issuing all the directives- and they don't give a stuff about any of the practicalities and costs.
........but I do think someone needs to have word with the guy who stopped the plastic handcuffs !!
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Having just returned from America & having gone through security umpteen times (you don't have to go through security at LHR to find it a nightmare, you just have to go there) 
I found security in America and LHR fairly okay. Any problems I've had in America I've relayed to TSA & my first reply has been very courteous, infact it is good that the TSA are interested in receiving pax feedback and if people have problems they should use this channel to air their views.
I was aware that security's habit of insisting people take off their shoes was not supposed to be permitted anymore. Therefore I found it hard to understand why twice I still had to go through security barefoot (well once in flightsocks), I did not feel in a position to query security at the time, I just wanted to get on the bl**dy plane. I still have to read the TSA's reply to my second query but I'm sure they'll be as courteous as ever & they have reassurred me that through pax feedback they are made aware of errant screeners & teams and will act upon repeat complaints accordingly, as they will use complaints to improve their service. Remember no matter how power struck some security get the main reason there there is for your security & that of your fellow pax. Treating them as friends rather than foe & using common sense when packing will go along way to ensure you have a smooth ride through security. Incidentally on the TSA website, I'll post the URL later, you can get ideas on how to pack that will make everyone's life easier.
As promised, some of the tips aren't as common sensy as one might think.
www.TSATravelTips.us
I found security in America and LHR fairly okay. Any problems I've had in America I've relayed to TSA & my first reply has been very courteous, infact it is good that the TSA are interested in receiving pax feedback and if people have problems they should use this channel to air their views. I was aware that security's habit of insisting people take off their shoes was not supposed to be permitted anymore. Therefore I found it hard to understand why twice I still had to go through security barefoot (well once in flightsocks), I did not feel in a position to query security at the time, I just wanted to get on the bl**dy plane. I still have to read the TSA's reply to my second query but I'm sure they'll be as courteous as ever & they have reassurred me that through pax feedback they are made aware of errant screeners & teams and will act upon repeat complaints accordingly, as they will use complaints to improve their service. Remember no matter how power struck some security get the main reason there there is for your security & that of your fellow pax. Treating them as friends rather than foe & using common sense when packing will go along way to ensure you have a smooth ride through security. Incidentally on the TSA website, I'll post the URL later, you can get ideas on how to pack that will make everyone's life easier.
As promised, some of the tips aren't as common sensy as one might think.
www.TSATravelTips.us
Gatvol
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Boofhead writes:"The real problem was that after Sep 11 the authorities had a chance to do it right and blew it. They decided to treat all of us as if WE were the problem, instead of the ones who needed to be protected. The real criminals are laughing on their way through "security" while the children, old ladies and crew are given the treatment."
Bravo......But doing things correct is not Politically correct..
Bravo......But doing things correct is not Politically correct..
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Woofrey is right, it's easy to take out your frustration out on the security personnel, who are allowed very little flexibility in exercising their own judgement in any individual situation by;
a) DFT rules and regulations, and
b) Their own senior line management, who are very good at being invisible.
They in turn are sitting on a very fine line between being damned if they do and being damned if they don't.
It's a crap job, poorly paid, and should they screw up once in any respect, they're shown the door.
The DFT should be more accountable to the travelling public and the airlines/staff, perhaps if they were they'd get a lot more cooperation and understanding in undertaking the very important job they do.
Incidently B Sousa, what does a "real criminal" look like?
I'm sure that the next time you fly, the security staff would be eternally grateful for your wisdom.
a) DFT rules and regulations, and
b) Their own senior line management, who are very good at being invisible.
They in turn are sitting on a very fine line between being damned if they do and being damned if they don't.
It's a crap job, poorly paid, and should they screw up once in any respect, they're shown the door.
The DFT should be more accountable to the travelling public and the airlines/staff, perhaps if they were they'd get a lot more cooperation and understanding in undertaking the very important job they do.
Incidently B Sousa, what does a "real criminal" look like?
I'm sure that the next time you fly, the security staff would be eternally grateful for your wisdom.
Still behind the curtain
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The big auction?
I've had a few things confiscated, but my wife recently had a pretty expensive hair pin -- the kind on a spring -- taken away from her as a potentially dangerous weapon.
I've always wondered what happens to these scissors, nail files, etc. Do they eventually go on some sort of public auction, or are they distributed on a points basis among the security staff. There surely must be some items of more than minimal value,
Also, I have a gold watch with a thick gold band. I've never taken it off and the buzzer has never gone off. Is there anything about gold that it doesn't register?
I've always wondered what happens to these scissors, nail files, etc. Do they eventually go on some sort of public auction, or are they distributed on a points basis among the security staff. There surely must be some items of more than minimal value,
Also, I have a gold watch with a thick gold band. I've never taken it off and the buzzer has never gone off. Is there anything about gold that it doesn't register?
These criminal record checks are on their to Ba crew and management insists you must return the completed form ABSOLUTELY IMMEDIATELY to some fart in jockland,yet all foreigners from totally unknown and dubious backgrounds are exempt! If the information cannot be provided thens that is it for you my friend is what l would say. What a bloody joke.
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I spent the best part of one summer at LHR checking in tennis racquets. The airline I worked for had no problem with pax taking them on board, but T3 security didn't always seem to like them. The other classic (as I moaned about on another thread) was the security chap who wanted to confiscate staplers from customer service staff as we went to board the aircraft. In terms of banned catapults (as my pax used to read through the list provided by the DTLR I got used to sighing "it's a slingshot" at them), I'd be interested to know if anyone has seen a Bart Simpson type trying to smuggle one on board.
Not so long ago had a security agent at LAX asking me why my chest was beeping. Seemed he hadn't heard of underwiring in bras. He called a supervisor to check that I wasn't winding him up. I proceeded unmolested, but wondering whether half of this is now becoming a wind up with these personnel reading proon and having a joke at our expense.
Not so long ago had a security agent at LAX asking me why my chest was beeping. Seemed he hadn't heard of underwiring in bras. He called a supervisor to check that I wasn't winding him up. I proceeded unmolested, but wondering whether half of this is now becoming a wind up with these personnel reading proon and having a joke at our expense.
I was once due to attend an 'anti hi-jacking seminar'. To show how utterly pointless all this security crap by bottom-fondling failed wheelclampers actually is, I made 2 weapons from items which would easily pass through security....(which I've now desroyed).
Unfortunately the day job at the time precluded my attendance at the seminar; I had to fly instead. But the message would have been clear; assume that a hi-jacker will always pose a threat, stop the huggy fluffy 'talk them out of it' approach, just kill the bastards and learn how to defend the aeroplane.
Stop pi$$ing off 99.9% of the passengers with this blatant nonsense; learn how to cope should it ever happen.
Unfortunately the day job at the time precluded my attendance at the seminar; I had to fly instead. But the message would have been clear; assume that a hi-jacker will always pose a threat, stop the huggy fluffy 'talk them out of it' approach, just kill the bastards and learn how to defend the aeroplane.
Stop pi$$ing off 99.9% of the passengers with this blatant nonsense; learn how to cope should it ever happen.
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How about the remark a friend of mine's father made to airport security soon after 9/11.
When security commented on the pin in his wife's brooch, he cheekily retorted
"It's not much use without the grenade".
Some people get away with anything, if it had been me I would have been frogmarched off. All he got was a slight verbal reprimand
When security commented on the pin in his wife's brooch, he cheekily retorted
"It's not much use without the grenade".
Some people get away with anything, if it had been me I would have been frogmarched off. All he got was a slight verbal reprimand
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You should check out Manchester Airport.
You are not allowed to carry a knife around the work place ( even if you do need it to lash down freight in the back of an aircraft hold ). Lets see, your not allowed to carry a knife and fork into the work place , for fear of stabbing that nice piece of roast potato on the plate.
BUT.
you are allowed to walk around with a transferring shotgun because nobody wants to take charge of it. Customs not interested Police and security cannot be bothered to sort it. because its just passing through.
Wake up Ringway get your act togther Now.
You are not allowed to carry a knife around the work place ( even if you do need it to lash down freight in the back of an aircraft hold ). Lets see, your not allowed to carry a knife and fork into the work place , for fear of stabbing that nice piece of roast potato on the plate.
BUT.
you are allowed to walk around with a transferring shotgun because nobody wants to take charge of it. Customs not interested Police and security cannot be bothered to sort it. because its just passing through.
Wake up Ringway get your act togther Now.
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At Vancouver recently, had an expensive Mobile phone confiscated, because the battery was dead (and thus I couldn't prove it worked).
The Charger was in my Main luggage (i.e. far away from me), and the I must have forgotten to charge it!
They said I could collect it on my return, but for the life of me, what the hell did they think it was? It was only a small thing.
If I were a terrorist and it were a Bomb, wouldn't I least have the bloody battery working?!
It really really annoyed me but what can you say? Any protest and you are potentially frogmarched away (and perhaps ultimately banned from the country)
CRAZY
The Charger was in my Main luggage (i.e. far away from me), and the I must have forgotten to charge it!
They said I could collect it on my return, but for the life of me, what the hell did they think it was? It was only a small thing.
If I were a terrorist and it were a Bomb, wouldn't I least have the bloody battery working?!
It really really annoyed me but what can you say? Any protest and you are potentially frogmarched away (and perhaps ultimately banned from the country)
CRAZY
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Recently I had my nail clippers confiscated in MAN!!
"Take me to Paris or I'll give you a manicure." The security woman could offer no reason for how they were dangerous just that that was the rule.
Hadn't thought about the name badge thing before, will have to surrender mine at work tommorow.
One warning though if everyone keeps harping on about how dangerous duty free bottles are maybe they'll be banned too. Or maybe they make too much money for BAA, who run security!
"Take me to Paris or I'll give you a manicure." The security woman could offer no reason for how they were dangerous just that that was the rule.
Hadn't thought about the name badge thing before, will have to surrender mine at work tommorow.
One warning though if everyone keeps harping on about how dangerous duty free bottles are maybe they'll be banned too. Or maybe they make too much money for BAA, who run security!
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Lets not forget
Donīt forget that USA is now punishing the civilized world for a inner security breach on 11/9 2001 (or 9/11 for those that read backwards).
Because the US security guards let Atta and all these bastards slip through, they have since invented all sorts of daft regulations that have nothing to do with security. Who in his right mind really thinks the copilot is going to use his nailclippers to slowly remove the captains head, huh!.
A mate of mine recently went through JFK. TSA intellectuals threatened to confiscate his pen! Too heavy for a sharp object (Mont Blanc, Meisterstuck) they said, but decided to give the poor sod a break after consulting with a supervisor
TSA now has a bunch of MacDonald rejects on a high horse, no personal profiling on a large number of them, and after a headstorming (for brainstorming there has to be a brain) we are now not allowed to lock our checked in suitcases. I recently lost 2 Hugo Boss shirts, 4 DVD movies and a lovely Swiss Army knife in a leather holster from a suitcase that was in belly, in USA.
We need security, thatīs no doubt, but many of these "letīs do something" rules simply do not work. unfortunately common sense is not so common there.
Latest from USA: There are now ideas of requiring a DNA sample on every foreign passport (sperm sample etc.).
Because the US security guards let Atta and all these bastards slip through, they have since invented all sorts of daft regulations that have nothing to do with security. Who in his right mind really thinks the copilot is going to use his nailclippers to slowly remove the captains head, huh!.
A mate of mine recently went through JFK. TSA intellectuals threatened to confiscate his pen! Too heavy for a sharp object (Mont Blanc, Meisterstuck) they said, but decided to give the poor sod a break after consulting with a supervisor
TSA now has a bunch of MacDonald rejects on a high horse, no personal profiling on a large number of them, and after a headstorming (for brainstorming there has to be a brain) we are now not allowed to lock our checked in suitcases. I recently lost 2 Hugo Boss shirts, 4 DVD movies and a lovely Swiss Army knife in a leather holster from a suitcase that was in belly, in USA.
We need security, thatīs no doubt, but many of these "letīs do something" rules simply do not work. unfortunately common sense is not so common there.
Latest from USA: There are now ideas of requiring a DNA sample on every foreign passport (sperm sample etc.).
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I have read through the posts on this thread, and the thing that jumps out and grabs your attention is, how dare someone earning less than the gold braided self appointed gods pay in tax, question the fore mentioned gods!!!
People these security guards are necessary and are just doing there often unpleasant jobs, ask them what they think of pompous pilots?
I am not a security guard but my job involves having to pass through security checks several times a day, and the guards I meet respond better to be spoken too in a civil manner. Not in a how dare you question me, because I am above all this manner.
People these security guards are necessary and are just doing there often unpleasant jobs, ask them what they think of pompous pilots?
I am not a security guard but my job involves having to pass through security checks several times a day, and the guards I meet respond better to be spoken too in a civil manner. Not in a how dare you question me, because I am above all this manner.