Security at LHR... A true story?

[Mr Chips]

Arkroyal what do you suggest a security guard does when confronted with something that could be an explosive device?

"I see you have an alarm clock sir, but you have an honest face so I will guess it has no explosives attached"???

Of course they check electronic equipment... wasn't Pan Am 103 brought down by a bomb in a stereo?????

[jewitts]

The one that sticks in my mind at Heatrow transit was the poor old lady who had been stupidly allowed to board a plane in Canada with an antique walking stick. On arriving at Heathrow security (just ahead of me) she was told in no uncertain terms "you can't go through with this! It could be used as a weapon!" Fair enough I thought; this little old 70 something woman may well be able to batter someone with a walking stick. To my amazement, it wasn't the stick itself but the ca. 3/4 inch ornate brass ferrule on the bottom. The over-zealous guard produced from his pocket a pair of pliers and roughly unscrewed the offending item (About as sharp as my little finger) and returned the walking stick to the poor woman, who by now was in a state of shock. She whispered "Can I get it back when I return?". "No it will be destroyed!" came the reply. I must say that now I try to avoid LHR as a transit airport because of this incident! That and having to wait 45 minutes to pass through the single security point open for Terminal 4 transit passengers.

[Parkbremse]

I'm just waiting for the day when salt and pepper is banned from inflight meals, because you could knock out the Cabin Crew by throwing the salt/pepper in their eyes. But actually the whole meal plate in an even more deadlier weapon so eventually meals will be banned for security reasons also...

[Atlanta-Driver]

Security

Many if not all good restaurant on the airside around the world carry full cutlery.

It's funny that crews and pax alike are subject to very personal and uncomfortable searches only to have nail clippers removed when one can go and "Borrow" a knife or a fork from one of these restaurants.

I do not disagree about the need of security but some of these nutters watching the monitors are just a total waste of gravity.

Worst security encounters and the most uncomfortable personal searches have been in UK.
I do not appreciate being "Frisked" by a perverted old men that seem just like to get their hands on younger men, especially after I have just walked through a metal detector without any beeps or dings. How do they justify these searches beats me.

Any other "It happened to me" horror stories???

AD

[breakscrew]

An oldie, but goodie........


A public school teacher was arrested at Heathrow Airport today
for attempting to board a flight while in possession of a compass,
a protractor, and a graphical calculator.
Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious Al Gebra movement.
He has been charged with carrying weapons of math instruction

[sky330]

Got a question for 'security' guys
I got a friend, owner of a gym club, trained himself several hours per day! You see the style.
Nearly 2 meters and 105 kilos with no fat, and 5th DAN Tae-kwo-do! He is able to move at an amazing speed for someone that size and weight.

Is he allowed to travel by air?
Because I can assured anybody that he is far more dangerous bare hands than me armed with a nail clipper....
Him on board is definitively a security breach. Maybe, we should ban all bigs guys, martial arts specialist, etc.. of airliners.

On second tought, just ban all passengers, cabin crew will feel much safer that way

[Go Smoke]

I regularly (twice a month) go airside LHR Terminal 1 to service some of the stands there.

I carry a variety of knives including scalpels, stanley knives, lock knives even a 10" serrated bread knife (it comes in useful sometimes) in my toolbox, also have a wide selection of razor sharp chisels and any number of other tools that could easily become offensive weapons.

None of this is questioned as I need this stuff to be able to do my job (I'm a carpenter)

I do not get checked on my way out.

Therefore I sometimes wonder about all the other staff I see there and how easy it would be for one of us to conceal a weapon airside for someone else to pick up at a later time.

It makes the hunt for nail scissors seem farcical.

[ILS 119.5]

Funnily enough whilst passengering home one sector I ripped an empty can of coke in half. How sharp is a piece of torn alminium? I'll tell you, sharp enough to penetrate the skin of anyone. How sharp is the broken wine bottle? You do not need to take weapons onto an aircraft. They are already there, and provided free of charge by the airlines.

[HZ123]

ILS you need to take stock of your life if such infantile actions cause amusement to you. I assume that you have little experience of the aviation world.

[ILS 119.5]

HZ123
Yes, little experience. 20 years in the business, once an ATCO and now ATPL flying for the worlds favourite airline. Do not question my experience or knowledge in the aviation business. I only give my views, whether you like it or not.

[RUDAS]

have you ever considered that maybe your average security/customs official isn't the 'sharpest tool in the shed'(excuse that attrocious pun!) on an intellectual level,so realistically,what can one expect??

of course they may well see a threat in your 2cm safety pin/blunt teaspoon/nail clipper/etc.
Add that with a hint of good old US xenophobic/racist/religious fervour,and thats what we all end up with.

[hasta lueGO]

Sadly I think many of you are giving the Security staff at airports an undeserving hard time. There are several points I want to make:

DfT issued a list of items after September 11th that as part of Heightened Security Measures were no longer allowed access into an Airports Restricted Zone or onto aircraft. This obviously affects airports in UK only; although many European airports devised the same list. As well as restricting items that are allowed through Security in British airports it also applies to equipment onboard British registered aircraft - hence why there is no metal cutlery on Britsh AIrways but is on another (unnamed) European airline mentioned in an earlier post.

As well as listing specific items the list says that anything else that might be used as a weapon should not be allowed.

Some items are confiscated because in the wrong hands they pose a threat, rather than being a threat in the hands of the person bringing it through Security.

Yes there are other items available which could, potentially be used against an aircraft, it's crew or passengers but Security is a deterant and threat levels continuosuly assessed by DfT.

If, of course, you experience something that makes no sense -then question it with the Security personnel or their Supervisor or manager. If there are unjustified miss-understandings then these can be dealt with by the management when they are aware.

Unfortunately in a time where nothing is black and white there will be miss-understandings, but let's work together and support eachother or take mature steps to get explanation or change . . . . thank you all - safe flying!

[Tinstaafl]

"...security is a deterrent...."???

You really believe that? Then why are you removing pocket knives from crew & pax. when they can buy a 750ml glass bottle of spirits? Or a can of soft drink? Or any of a plethora of items that make damned useful cutting implements? How about knitting needles? Do you really believe they're more dangerous than a sharp pencil or fountain pen?

Just what sort of deterrent do you think security is providing? "Hey Bin Liner, leave your box cutter at home. We'll buy a nice bottle of Scotch while we wait for boarding."

I have to be careful with my fuel sampler if I have to get airside with it. It (shock, horror) has a screwdriver attachment! Which, btw, is used regularly to open access panels, check Dzus fasteners etc. It's a tool of my trade but would be removed by 'security' twits. How about my kneeboard or similar? It's nothing to file one side to a nice sharp edge. No one would ever know. Same for steel rulers.

What about all the tool wielding people allowed airside? Cleaners, maintenance, refuellers & emergency services, just to name a few. Don't forget their vehicles. How many place do you think there are to secrete a gun? How many of them do you think are inspected? Hope you answered 'almost none' because that's all that can be done unless you start xray-ing the entire vehicle or dismantling it to its component parts.

Meanwhile the a/c's required equipment can include a crash axe, scalpels in the first aid box.... Need I go on?

Anyway, the pilot has no need to hijack an aircraft to gain control of it - he or she **already has control**. No security checkpoint removing screwdrivers or pocket knives would stop a pilot deciding to spear in to Big Ben while on final. Not even the much vaunted scrambling of fighters.

Face it, the 'security' show to get airside is just that: A show.

[hasta lueGO]

Unfortunately 'Tinstaafl' didn't seem to agree with my previous message about being supportive.

I think everyone would agree that Security will never be and can never be 100%. Yes the Pilot can fly the aircraft into whatever he/she desires, yes engineers carry tools airside but as I already said, Security is a deterrant to the general public. They see Security personnel remove items that pose a possible threat and it, on the whole, makes them feel safer - keeps them flying.

There are a multitude of measures used by Airlines, Airport Authorities and other airport users, under direction from DfT to safe guard flying to the best possible degree whilst keeping us all in jobs i.e. keeping the operations moving. TOTAL security wouldn't make any aspect of aviation commercially viable but i'm sure that the Department for Transport believe what they're directing is appropriate against the threat.

[Tinstaafl]

Deter the general public? From what? Unless you believe the general public plan to hijack aircraft? The 'security' of which you're so enamoured certainly won't deter those with nefarious intent. Why would they bother trying to walk a prohibited item on board when there's so many other things that are at least as effective as a pocket knife, or pair of scissors, or a knitting needle, or a screwdriver, or a spanner etc etc etc ad nauseum - and not restricted? And even if you make the list of restricted items so comprehensive that those on board are naked, you still won't stop weaponry getting on board. Either hidden in an orifice, or secreted earlier via one of the thousand of occupations that have access to aircraft on the ground. They can't stop prohibited items getting into a maximum security prison with limited population so why would anyone think 'security' will be successful in the open environment of the rest of the world?

Those who plan to take over an aircraft certainly won't be bothered by 'security'. In many ways it's easier now than it was before the paranoia set in:

* Crew no longer have items that previously would have been available to defend themselves courtesy of 'security'.
* Ditto pax who are also relieved of such things, also courtesy of 'security'.
* No cockpit visitors to obstruct access to the flight crew, either passively or actively.
* A nice, lockable door giving splendid isolation to Mr Nasty & cohorts once they get in.
* They can still 'game the system' ie send many members of the gang for many flights before hand. Some may be caught, others won't be. Those who pass through - & the items that pass through with them - are the ones used for the main event.
* Additional 'security' checks prior to training, or required for the issue of a pilot licence. Meanwhile you don't need much more than an 15 or 30 mins to learn enough to crash an aircraft where you want, let alone the licence. Planning to ban introductory flights? Or the sale of handheld GPS?

Instead we now have the stupidity of:

* People being refused access back to the same aircraft they flew in on because they don't have a 'ticket' - even though the charter or private flight doesn't use tickets, they're in the company of the pilot that flew them in and have flown in from an aerodrome that doesn't have or require 'security'.
* Nursing mothers with bottles of expressed milk having to drink the contents to prove it's not a poison of some sort.
* Medical equipment being searched for explosives even though the same equipment flew in on the same ambulance aircraft not 30 minutes before. No, it wasn't subject to an explosives test then. That sort of search equipment isn't available at most GA aerodromes nor is it mandated.
* Ditto 'security' threatening to disallow medical equipment because it has sharp items such as scalpels & needles. Duhh....of course there's sharp items - it's medical equipment for an ambulance aircraft, and sharp items are an integral part of medical supplies.
* How about having to fix better locks to aircraft as has been mandated in some places. That could make a big difference....if a miscreant forgets to bring his bolt cutters. Or a brick.

Every time we respond by eroding more & more of the previous freedoms we enjoyed then the terrorists win just a little bit more. Eventually we end up in a society indistinguishable from those coercive & restrictive societies we once opposed. All in the name of 'preserving freedom', of course.

The WTC hijackers wouldn't have been stopped by our current 'security'. They used a box cutter? So now they use a piece of glass from the duty free, or a mirror or whatever.

They trained at a sim. centre? Now they use M$ flight sim + popular add-ons to learn sufficient to provide steering cues to the a/p.

They need to navigate? They must be quaking in their boots that some bureaucrat will think to ban road maps.

Identity cards or similar? They wouldn't have been caught by any system currently in place or proposed. Even in our current high-anxiety state, a country *with* an ID card system couldn't stop a seperatist movement from bombing them.

The tragic event that instigated this paranoia has led to at least one beneficial change: It's no longer the received wisdom to acquiesce to a hijacker. Now the prevailing opinion from authorities, crew & pax supports all occupants using maximum & aggressive resistance to such an event. It's arguable that had that been the case on the WTC flights then the outcome would have been different.

Only now the only people likely to save the a/c are forcibly disarmed.