Helicentre crash
 

Anyone have details on the Helicentre AW109 crash at Oxford yesterday?

Don't quote me because this is, after all, a rumour network. Training accident. Instructor unable to recover a student mistake in time. Hard landing removing the nose wheel from 109S. Aircraft had only apparently been purchased a couple weeks before, which is a real shame. The aircraft was a well maintained well looked after 109.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ede1fbf632.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8bc4cd32ed.jpg

Can't think I'd be doing running landings to a grass field in one of those.

I reckon a reject from a engine failure pre-TDP and the student lowered the lever then moved the cyclic forward rather than the other way around. I had this mistake demonstrated to me once and you have to be quick to recover it as an instructor - a fortunate demonstration as someone did it to me later.

What is an FOM?

Why would you ask? :}:E

Flight Ops Manager, usually the NP FO

Because another previous post, since removed, used the term without clarifying what it stood for.

That looks like a minor bump but could be a very expensive repair. The floor structure on a 109 adjacent to the nose-wheel is not the strongest design.

Seen that look before…

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....50524293b.jpeg

People do strange things when you sit them in a helicopter and give them two sticks to hold. The only time in my flying career where I was involved in an aircraft damage incident was during an EOL landing in a Gazelle. My student did a very nice autorotation but instead of raising the collective to cushion the touchdown he pulled back hard on the cyclic. Thankfully it only resulted in the requirement for a new frangible skid. Even more fortunate was that 20 minutes later my new squadron boss Cat 3’d his Gazelle just 200 yards away and I gave him a lift back to base! :ok:

The rumour I heard was a practice auto to hover recovery, which was made somewhat harder as the throttles were left at idle...

Oops! Nearly had that happen to me in a Puma HC1. Part of a pilot’s IF check was an entry into autorotation after a double throttle pull. My student, in the right seat, didn’t do very well. He let the Nr drop so low that the alternators tripped off line and the autopilot disconnected as advertised. I had to take control from the resultant, horrendous “UP” he got himself into. As I rolled the aircraft level at about 300 feet agl I heard a single “Beep” from the low Nr warning system. I looked around to confirm that the crewman (who had the responsibility of advancing the throttles) was in the jump seat and was advancing them, only to see his seat empty - he’d strapped into his crash position! The HC1’s Turmo IIIC4 engines’ very poor response from idle was legendary….

My one word, very vulgar response was followed by my right hand and both of the crewman’s hands very rapidly pushing the throttles forwards. We thankfully flew away at around 100’ agl, all of us having learned valuable lessons!

If this is the case it’s not the first time that sort of incident has happened under Helicentre training, you’d think after having had that issue in a G2 they might have put in some further training or safeguard for the FI’s regarding throttle awareness…

Double idle PFL are particularly dangerous in the AW109 as the detent between idle and off is push down...the weight of your hand helps do that. It should be lift and turn. I know at least one highly experienced pilot who did that on both engines whilst demonstrating a double idle PFL and it took no less than 2700 ft for the engines to slow sufficiently that the FADEC logic allowed a relight and the engines spooled up enough to climb away. The significant height loss to recover the engines became part of the instructor syllabus in the sim workup.

Unfortunately the behaviour and skills to handle an auto with both engines running is sufficiently different from a genuine PFL that will remain a push to do double idle PFL. The Sesto Calende sim is a pretty good representation of the genuine auto characteristics according to that pilot!

Sadly an august member of this forum had a very similar experience in a Puma too, realisation kicked in far too low to get the throttles back in time.

And that was the end of double throttle pulls in the Puma.

Tech log entry: aircraft turns over but fails to start….?

Has echoes of Ben Ceaser: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/72871

It was the aftermath of that tragic, fatal accident that finally prompted the RAF to carry out single engine failure drills in a simulator. An ex Boss of 33 Sqn (who had never been a fan of the way that they had always been done “live”) became promoted high enough to change the policy. Took another few years before it finally happened, though.

Must have just been shortcomings with Puma pilots then :E:), double speed select pulls were no problem for Wessex pilots:ok:

**** happens
 

Fortunately no one was hurt or worse.