QM,
It's nice to be in agreement with some-one at last. Just one quick point, I'm not sure how it is in Bristow but across the runway the CC are elected by Balpa members and represent said Balpa members in all negotiations with the Company. In theory you must be a Balpa member to have a say.

Don't give up the fight,

Chopperman.

Yes intriguing, doesn't appear to be the same a BHL. If it is, then things have gone awfully wrong, as there is a lot of discension in the Balpa ranks at the moment.

We have people talking of daft rate increases, as someone put it, 160 pilots with 150 different pay award idea's. It is getting very tiresome to try and get them united.

Keep up the good work chaps, I was glad to see the feeling at the meeting the other week.

[This message has been edited by QM (edited 18 June 2001).]

Canadian Helicopters year end results to 30 April 2001.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010627/to292.html

Scotia Rosters
 

Hi,

can anyone tell me what rosters people work from ABZ now and what they are changing too in due course.

I have heard that they are supposed to be going to 4 on/3 off (4/3), and 8 on/6 off (8/6)in due course but I am not sure of the timing.

also I have heard (not verified) that at the moment it is 5/2, or sometime more complicated like 5/2 then 4/3 then 7/7 which would appear to give you a full week off in every 4.

what should someone new expect when they start?

I’m wondering what's the difference between Scotia and BHL pilots, because the deals they’re getting are completely different, even after the recent offer BHL has just made to its pilots:

SFO year 1:

SCOTIA:
Basic pay: £37,804
Pension: GPP, company contributes with 7.5%
Roster: 4 on :3 off, (192 on : 173 off per year once holidays are included)
Future pay rise: asking for 46%, if not industrial action will be taken.

BHL:
Basic pay: £36,633
Pension: GPP, company contributes with 5%
Roster: 4 on : 2 off (223 on : 142 off per year once holidays are included)
Future pay rise: ????

----

Captain year 21

SCOTIA:
Basic pay: £60,054
Roster: 4 on :3 off, (192 on : 173 off per year once holidays are included)
Future pay rise: asking for 46%, if not industrial action will be taken.

BHL:
Basic pay + North Sea Commander allowance: £58,399
Roster: usually 4 on : 2 off (average 220 on : 145 off per year once holidays are included)
Future pay rise: ????

----

Any ideas?

Interesting figures that bear no resemblance to those on the BALPA web site (which do agree with my own knowledge). Their figures suggest that Scotia don't even have a year 21 point for Captains?

The "recent" pay offer to BHL must be very recent as I had an e-mail yesterday from a colleague in Scatsta saying "still no news on the pay review".

I look forward to being corrected.

[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: 212man ]

100% is correct. The Balpa web site has not yet been updated to take account of the recent Scotia pay review.

Chopperman.

Oh what a surprise. A totally derisory pay offer from BHL. When are our management going to realise that in order to Recruit and Retain (as is the declared intention), they need to pay market forces. Well colleagues if we vote to accept this, I'm off. The sad part is that some managers think it is a good deal.

Hello 212man

Would you like the BHL " 2001 pay and benefits review" to be faxed to you ?

I know that there is absolutely no difference between the Bristow and Scotia pilots: they both sit down for a p!ss. :rolleyes:

Well with the pay deal that the engineers excepted you must be in the next cubicle!

Thanks Pat but I'm leaving tomorrow but will be in Redhill next Monday, so should get the low down then. Glad to hear I was wrong though I guess the figures 100% are referring to are have not actually been adopted yet.

As one of those that keep the UK public awake in the wee small hours, flying the boys in blue around with their 'see in the dark in the dark camera' and the big Maglight , I am watching the salary threads with a great deal of interest. The emergency services pilotage suppliers are also suffering with a loss of pilots to the fixed wing world for more money and big chair in a bay window. I'm just as peeved by the huge differential in pay. The larger North Sea comapnies have enough pilots that a union and the threat of industrial action may get results Not the case I suspect in the widely spread, thinly manned world of emergency services. So, whilst may I riding on your backs as it is you who are taking the action, I, or we as I probably speak for many of the Emergency services pilots, are behind you and also thank you in advance, because what you achieve today, will eventual trickle down to me. :rolleyes:

BB,

You are right.

The UK emergency services have relied too long on experienced pilots prepared, for a number of reasons, to work for a salary well below the market average.

One reason was a surplus of ex-services pilots at the time Air Support and Air Ambulance units were being set up in the early 1990s.

The main factor allowing salaries to stay suppressed appears to be that BALPA has traditionally shown little interest in this area of employment.

This caused this group of pilots to be reluctant to join BALPA, so the problem became compounded. I was at one time keen to join BALPA but events involving the North Sea market a couple of years back made me throw my completed application in the bin because I realised that I may as well throw the membership fees down the toilet. I have since moved on because I could not support my family and (relatively simple) lifestyle on the salary.

The providers of pilotage are now, unsurprisingly, feeling the pinch as existing pilots have woken up to the fact that they are not getting a fair deal and are leaving in some numbers. Also, there are no longer large numbers of heli pilots leaving the armed services. An increasing proportion of those that do are obtaining fixed-wing licences instead of rotary because of the better rewards available.

Air Support and Air Ambulance Units not directly employing pilots on a decent salary are now entering into a period of instability because pilots are NOT going to stay long, but will merely use this type of flying as a stop-gap employment. Both types of unit deserve better than this, after all they are providing an important public service.

The hierarchy need to wake up and be prepared to pay the market rate. I for one would go back to it tomorrow if this were to happen. Let's hope that the improved salary recently offered by Humberside Police is a sign of recognition of the facts and that others will follow suit.

But then we all have known this for some time, haven't we? A certain saying involving peanuts and monkeys is becoming relevant.

ShyT :(

Sorry, this isn't meant to dilute the North Sea thread, but for those of us not on North Sea salaries and with no recognised BALPA representation the 'alternative' professional body, the Independent Pilots' Association (IPA) is in the process of metamorphosing into a 'union'. Watch this space?
To my former BHL colleagues and those in Scotia: thanks and keep up the good work chaps. (and chapesses!)
:rolleyes:

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Multp ]

This neatly answers a question I posed some time ago about rates of pay. Can anyone give me a contact number for Scotia? I have Dominique Howletts but he's never there!

Are Scotia still interested in 4500hr ex mil types?

The difference is that Scotia pilots are willing to refuse overtime, talk seriously about industrial action and stand together for what they know is right. If this upsets some people then tough, the truth sometimes hurts.

Ps, i'm wearing my nomex suit as I type as I know i'm going to get flamed for this but it had to be said.

Chopperman.

:D
Chopperman,
torched for what? It's true but we're getting there; and I might buy you a pint next time we meet united.

Emergency Services Pilots don't despair just yet !!!! At long last the divide and rule policy in one of the leading providers of pilots is being broken down. Pilots are talking together from units all over the country and moves are afoot to get BALPA recognised by the company. There are enough of us in the union to make it so and with the support of all the workforce (not just the mutterings of the past) we can make a difference. We need to make our voices heard by both the management and the customers if we are not to fall even further behind. So speak up and make sure the people who matter know that we are not happy and that at long last we are determined to try and do something about it.

Sorry if we are in danger of hijacking this North Sea thread. BearintheAir, that is good to hear. Please could keep me, or should that read the rest of us, update. Indeed, e-mail me with any usefulinfo if you feel it's at that stage yet. Is this worth a thread of it's own, I posted the original support message expecting that to be that, but there obiviously is a lot of discontent out there in the Air Support Units.