I've got plenty of time on Robo's, but for me the best bit about the T-bar is it offers vertical adjustment of the grip, ie: the grip can be wherever your hand is. Rest your forearm on your thigh and the grip comes to you. How many JetRanger or Hughes 500 pilots do you see clutching the lower half of the grip and half the steel pole because they too rest their arm on their leg?
Now, if they can only make R22 doors fit...

Doors fit on a 22....?

And the 44, 206, 105, 412, 120,135....

I was informed that I had a dent in a panel of my new 44
Shock Horror... Funny, it went away when I next parked it on level ground
:*

The T bar is an excellent invention by Franky Boy. No struggling getting the wife in and out !

Happy

T Bar. Excellent for all the tech reasons above. But also makes superb chassis for clamp-on cupholder. ;)

Happy Landing - I'll remember that next time I'm dumping the wife.

I was talking to Dick Sanford recently and he said that he'd developed a retro fit conventional cyclic a few years ago which was great until Frank R found out about it and went into orbit, and has since banned any thing like this unless it comes from the factory. Something I can't see happening anytime in the next thousand years!!

Personally I think the T-bar is great, unless you are an instructor who gets smashed in the head by it everytime you lean forwards:}

The add-on kit to convert to a standard cyclic is made by/called Altair if memory serves me right. It's similar to an MD900's up and over type cyclic as opposed to the more traditional jetranger type. I learned with it and had no problems (apart from the usual problems of learning to fly a helicopter).

Actually, I get on quite well with it too. Being a tall chap, even my long legs fit under the t-bar. My only difficulties arise when 2-up with more than a teacup of fuel... :rolleyes:

I was just interested as to why they stick with as it it would seem (and this is backed up by your very interesting replies) that there are more conventional alternatives.

So were these conversions ever approved? Would an R22 or R44 with such a mod get through a CofA?

DBChopper
:confused:

I love the R22, and about 90% of my hours are on it. But I'd much rather have a conventional cyclic. I find it very hard to rest my hand on my knee; I'm not very tall, so my legs are stretched out to reach the pedals, so the T-bar is only just long enough. I gather I'm not the only person who has this problem; I was warned on the instructor course that some of my students might. And talking of instructing, there's gotta be easier ways to hold a cyclic than balanced way up in the air! Difficult to get in and out of helos? Never had any problem myself. Overall the R22 is wonderful, but that's in spite of its T-bar, not because of it.

Whirly,

That was one of the problems I was considering when I started the thread. With my height, I tend to have to hold the grip so that the t-bar is almost horizontal anyway, but surely if you have a student following on the cyclic who is a similar height to you, then the grip must be up by the ceiling?!

DBChopper
:confused:

May I add my 2 cents.

I recently took up helicopter flying, and now have 10 hours in an R44, this after 34 years as a spamcan PPL.

I was inspired by several charters I did in South Africa and Zambia last December, and decided to go for it.

The T-bar seems a perfectly logical system from the students point of view, I am instructed to rest my arm/wrist on my thigh with the cyclic vertical, the instructor of course has his end up under his armpit, so to speak, but he has 30 years in helis and is not complaining.

At the 9th hour I eventually succeeded with the hover, managing 5 minutes over the reference spot, I hesitate to say mastered, it has opened up a new world for me, and when I get to fly Longrangers and the Dauphin, perhaps I will be able to comment further, in the meantime T is ok for me.


Please take a ride on
Sultan Ismails Flying Carpet

DBChopper, the Altair mod is a certified mod, at least in NZ. All the relevant paper work was in the flight manual.

T BAR CYCLIC
 

I find the quickly removable T bar excellent, especially in instances of air rage with the local planners.

R22/44 Cyclic
 

All my hours (and they are not many) minus 0.7 are in a 22 or 44.

I got into an Enstrom 280FX with great difficulty. Actually hated the helicopter, which is surprising considering it's easier to fly than a 22. That central stick is so much a pain.

I do rest my hand on my knee, but I noticed the sweat was begining to stain my trousers, now I carry a hanky to put between the two. Quite useful on the warmer hotter days for mobbing the brow as well.

As to the 22 doors, my wife and I did our first trip after I passed my test and as always the doors started puuling away from the airframe. She thought the door was open and that she was going to fall out. Try explaining it is perfectly normal, when you've never noticed (or cared) that this happens to a hysterical wife over the top of Silverstone!

Great days.

When I think back, it was good for flying with the grip between your knees so you could read a book or pour a coffee on those long ferry flights.:D

I agree it's a very clever piece of engineering design, because it's so simple and light.

But as Whirly says, if students are most comfortable with a low hand position, the instructors side is way up in the air.

As instructors are reluctant to be too obvious when 'following through' as this isn't confidence building for the student, I would assume they are not holding the cyclic quite as often as when training in a conventional stick machine.

Given the slick reaction times needed in a R22, it would seem there could be a wasted and critical half second more in taking control from a student who does something daft.

If the handle shaft was adjustable (very simple to do) it would cater for all sizes of pilots and enable instructors to shadow students movements more easily.

B47 (but long forgotten 150 hrs R22.....)

One thing that Frank Robinson, alone amongst helicopter designers, seems to have realized is that people (pilots) have been getting taller the last few generations. I'm quite tall, and as an instructor, when the student had his cyclic grip in a comfortable position, mine was too! The whole cabin fit like a glove and was comfortable for me, although even one inch taller would have been too much.

Conversely, I've often had a sore right wrist from the low cyclic grip in an Astar, and what Bell's engineers were thinking still escapes me. Get out of a 206L and into a 407 and your knees will scream for mercy in 30 mins. flat.

You'd better not tell those guys at Hiller!
 

You should keep this secret Robinson invention away from the guys at Hiller!

They might copy it on their products. http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/foto/hiller_hj-1_2.jpg

Also a feature of early Hiller 12's.

DBCChopper,

You should try holding that thing up while doing 180 autos! :}

Typically student holds down by their knee, but you have your arm up in the air, took a while to get used to it.

Crash in Sydney
 

Heard on the news a R22 went down with "bits and pieces falling off it everywhere" (witness statement).

Unfortuantly 2 dead. According to media, instructor and student.

Anyone throw some light on this.

Condolences to all.

Try www.abc.net.au/newsitems/s884163.htm