B47,

A very good point, IMHO, and probably worthy of a separate thread. I was one of those who learned to fly an R22 with a governor, and for a long time I really wasn't as aware of RPM changes as I should have been (Am I now? Dunno really, if I'm honest). I suspect I speak for many. At the recent Small Helicopter Safety Seminar in Farnborough somebody mentioned an aircraft (can't remember what) in which the carb heat was permanently on; what happened was that pilots became unaware of the need to constantly monitor it. I definitely agree that it's safer and better to learn on an aircraft with no frills, even if it takes a little longer.

!!!!!

dont forget the humble R22 HP with;

No governor

Little tip weight

No aux tank

5 hole panel

Lower tail boom (at TR end).

Whilst technological improvements are generally a good thing, there is always one question I love to ask those pushing the 'new improved' product.

What happens when it goes wrong??

One of the things my instructors at Cambridge did regularly was to switch off the governor to simulate failure. Now, although I fly with the governor on, I would have no problems either in a machine without one or during a failure.

I say learn in the bare basic then you can enjoy the assisted systems and cope if and when they fail.

R22 Flight Planning
 

Hi R22 pilots;

For flight planning purposes what TAS and fuel burn do you use when flight planning. I cannot find any graphs for TAS versus Fuel
Flow anywhere.

Thanks

I had an HP and it was great. As well as having none of the above, mine had the battery under the passenger seat, restrained by two long thin bolts that stuck up about three inches apiece. Crumple zone? I'll say.

I tend to plan for 90 Kts true for point to point trips... 75 for manouver practice.

As a general rule of thumb I work on full tanks as being 3hrs range useable.

Can't say I've come across any fuel flow figures, but then I've not looked.


And as an after response... I'm still at a basic level; about 80 TT, so as yet I don't do much that requires fuel planning.
I come in here to learn from the guys/girls who know what's what.:D

IHL.....

What are you doing in a robbie???

Is this a promotion?

Recollecting from way back; you can't go too wrong with planning at 32litres per hour. Nothing in the FM regarding fuel burn in the R22 so give up looking.
Best to fill to the brim and then fly for an hour and DIP the tanks. Cut a piece of the hanger broom and fashion a tank dipper. Don't rely on the guage (quick way to an early grave)
I am surprised that the last responder didn't know his fuel burn. Pretty critical info.
Additionally, it would be optimistic to plan at 90kts. Try 65kts as a starting point with full fuel and an armful of collective.

Steve76 :D

Disclaimer:
If YOU are driving a R22, DO NOT USE MY NUMBERS EXPLICITLY. They are a good guide buy you must do your own fuel burn calc. You may just find that you machine will burn lesser. All numbers above were discovered at temperatures from 25 to 45 degrees celcius at a place far far removed from Canada :) If you are not figuring your fuel burn for each machine then kick yourself in the goolies and get to it. Plenty of blokes have been caught with brand new carbies burning many more litres than they expected.:cool:

When I do my planning usually 80kts 10 gal/hr. I have not verified the burn number, but for the ships I fly it hasn't gotten me in trouble yet. This is used as far as I know, by everyone at my flight school.

When I read what I wrote, I realized that is some bad thinking, so when I start flying again I am going to do some good measuring of fuel burn. I haven't flown any legs that lasted more than 2hrs, and rarely continue flying with less than 1/4 tank just to keep things safe. Im still early in my "career" and I don't plan on letting fuel starvation get me when I can help it. Fly Safe.

The only time I've seen an official fuel burn figure is in the R22 maintenance manual. If I remember correctly and please don't quote me on this, they mention 26 litres/hour. This is the figure they suggest you use for calculating weight change while doing a track and balance flight test for the main rotor. I wouldn't advise using this operationally. As a guideline, or our machine we use 30 litres\hour. But as Steve76 says, work it out for yourself. There are just too many variables.

Irlandés

Last R22 HP I flew used about 6-7 galls hour at cruise=75kts
Last R22 Beta II I flew used about 10 galls hour at cruise=80kts
I always land with no less than 5 galls indicated on gauges as a safe margin and this gives me about 2.5 hours duration, but no harm in refueling whenever I get the chance.

Having only got about 60 hrs in the Robbo, I am still fairly wary of the performance, and particularly the fuel burn. I agree with all of the tips, especially always landing with a margin of about 5 US Gals. Each R22 I fly has a very different performance, although as a rule of thumb I reckon about 10US gals for hover and manoeuvring whereas about 8-9US gals for standard cruise at 20" MAP.

I own a robbo (r22 beta) and I've done nearly 500 hours in this machine including several trips of thousands of kilometers.

In fact I did a 2.5 hours trip up to a fishing spot and back today so I can give you some figures hot off the press, so to speak.

I think the lack of stuff about fuel flow rates in the manual reflects the fact that there are so many variables involved in geting a machine up to any particular speed.

Hope the following helps.

TAS planning - I do all my planning for 80 knots (that is said around the traps to be the average TAS at which you get about the best endurance all factors being equal on a good day if you hold your tongue right
:p

But realistically its a good middle ground planning TAS because you can fudge up and down a bit easily when your in the air and still stay in the right ball park.

The fuel burn rate in level flight with between 22 and 23 inches manifold pressure with an O-320-B2 engine is supposed to be 34 litres an hour.
Thats full rich at 104% RPM (equivalent to about 2650 RPM- 2700 RPM) I'm not sure about the O-360 in the Beta II so I won't comment on that.

I have had my fuel burn rate down to (calculated from fuel refilling - not measured) about 28 or 29 on some of my long trips when I have been flying solo with the manifold pressure down at 21 inches, but that's uncommon. (Low altitudes, cold days, very light) Some of my mustering mates have said they get burn rates down in the low 20's but they are flying governor off and are in an out of autorotations all the time so they are effectivley running at idle for lots of their time. I went for a run in a Long EZE with a friend of mine on the weekend (fixed wing, canard and almost delta wing, composite construction 0-320 B2 160 knots in cruise we were using 16 l/hour!!!! Boy was I jealous!)

My trip today was 2.5 hours plus 0.3 for the warm up and cool downs. Total fuel burned (well, the amount I paid the tanker driver for when he filled me up at home - was 96 litres
So that comes out to 34.3 l/hr. I was pulling 23 - 23.5 inches pretty much the whole way ( I needed that to brush the cobwebs out and to keep a decent IAS to get home. - also had doors off and very hot day.

Hope that helps a bit

If you want to see where I went go to http://helipics.homestead.com
and go to the Rattlesnake Point link actually went a bit past that but in that direction anyway.

RobboRider
 

Thank you for taking the time, to make your pictures avaliable.

Thanks for the information guys.

The reference material I have says : normal cruise 75 knots @ 102 % RPM. The R22 FM normal procedures say 83 KIAS for maximum range. You all appear to be in the same: ball park/ cricket pitch, on the same page or what ever metaphor works for ya. I do find it odd that there is no fuel burn reference published for the aircraft.

Steve 76:

I’m not actually doing anything with a Robbie. Just trying to track down some numbers for a project I have going.

I would like to try one some day. I feel like I’m missing something.

The contributors on this forum are very passionate about their R22.

I plan to fly at 80kts.

For fuel I start with 9.5gal/hr multiplied by (flight time + 30 mins)
plus 2gal provision for start up/shut down
plus 10% safety margin

Straight from the horse's mouth...

http://www.robinsonheli.com/R22EOC.pdf

R22 BETA II ESTIMATED OPERATING COSTS


Orientative only.

35L/H
 

in australia, fuel burn PLANNING rate is in the operations manual of the company that you fly for. i spose you just work it out otherwise. was 35L/h at chopper school.

Taint,

Having the batt there makes you feel all warm and fuzzy eh? :)

On the inst trainers you have the gyros under the right seat as well, even less crumple zone.

R22 Lease back costs and hull value?
 

Greetings!

I got my PPL(H) last summer and now having built up a few hours (and saved up some money), I intend buying my own secondhand R22 this summer. However, there seems to be a huge difference of opinion in what is the 'normal' leaseback rate to a flying club would be, ranging anything from £70/hour to over £90/hour.

Also, when calculating my 'total cost of running it' numbers, different people have told me that the hull will be worth anything between between £15k and £20k (or more), with the cost of a complete re-fit ranging from £55k to £75k.

I can't pin anyone down on the realistic sale price for a freshly re-fitted machine as the precious few around are not for sale!

Can anyone enlighten me with some real world experience?!

Don't know if this is any good but whilst looking at the cabair website I saw two R22 for sale, each £20K+VAT they had full avionics but with 5K hours.

www.cabair.com (I think)

Scott