... almost forgot, for what it's worth, I reckon the eVTOL 'industry' is fooling itself and its investors, big-time.

I fully agree with this and will also share that the comments above about profiteering using 1960’s technology by current OEM’s is ridiculous and incorrect. The reason Sikorsky commercial, MD and a variety of smaller players have gone bankrupt or closed their commercial divisions in the last few decades is because the regulatory environment is staggeringly bad and deters new technology. None of the aircraft OEM’s is as healthy as most of the primary suppliers like engine and avionics OEM’s. The industry would love to iterate and improve like automotive but the barriers are crushing and shameful by regulators who crush innovation and deter safety enhancements.

I've watched with interest from the sidelines the escalating presence of the Hill Helicopter, as there seem to be an abundance of advertisements promising what seems (to me) to be the unachievable.

And all the way through I've wondered just how they are going to transition from talking about a machine, to actually producing a real, flying example.

I'm no expert (in anything, sadly) but suspect that approval from the regulators (CAA, FAA, etc) is a painfully slow process.

It wasn't until today, after chancing upon an article written about Hill Helicopters in an obscure magazine, that I learned that essentially this is going to be a kit-built helicopter...!! (Apologies if you guys have mentioned that fact in this or other threads, I simply had not seen this rather significant element before.....)

So, if my understanding is correct, the new owners will go to the factory and 'build' their machine, then circumvent a huge tranche of the current regulations by flying it as an experimental (or amateur-built kit here in the UK) aircraft on a Permit to Fly. Don't the rules associated with Permit aircraft somewhat stifle the potential usability of the machine - I'm thinking maximum 4 POB, no night flying, UK airspace only, VFR only, etc.etc......

If they plan to be actually delivering machines to customers by 2024, how long will those early customers have to wait to exercise all of the capabilities and refinements of their wonderful (and it does indeed look wonderful) aircraft? No point in having five seats if you can't fill the fifth one for half a decade; all those fancy avionics just to fly VFR in the daytime, etc.

It's a shame, because I, like everyone, would love to see the industry shaken up, and to see the massive overpricing for parts that are 'aviation' brought to an end, so flying can be more realistically available.

I used to look at all the hype and the ads for Hill and think 'Wouldn't it be great if they actually could...."

But now, sadly, I just think "It's a Rotorway, in a posh frock....."

Not that I'm knocking Rotorway, oh no! They've been in the industry for a very long time now, and produce a genuinely (almost) affordable helicopter. And they've sold hundreds and hundreds of them.

But that amazing looking Hill machine........a kit? It just doesn't seem right......

HX50 will be "permit to fly", owners have attend factory to "build 51%" of their aircraft (ie attend for 2 weeks)

https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...ges-hx50-build

HC50 will be certified

https://helihub.com/2021/12/17/hill-...-version-hc50/

Yes, that's why I'm saying it'll be a kit helicopter for quite a while. When their target market is private owners flying 1-4 people flying in VFR conditions... this aircraft is designed exactly for that market at the right price point between an R44 and R66. And for folks who can afford this, they can afford a two-week "vacation" performing 51% of the "build" while sipping their espresso. The question is will that price point be actually able to be held because of their vertical integration/high technology machines or if it starts climbing. And of course, does the aircraft (and ENGINE!) perform?

As mentioned in the latest Hill video, BREXIT has actually helped them because they're only dealing with the CAA and not EASA. For the HC50, I'm sure they're going to try and use all the flight data and deliveries to try and pressure the CAA/EASA/FAA to accept any of their deviations or whathaveyou, but that's likely going to get a big, fat, no. But if they have enough revenue (and deposits) from HX50 deliveries, I could see this being done by 2030.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e64154d938.png

This is an old saying in business that you can't have all three sides of the triangle.

ie

if you want it on time, it will either be more expensive, or less quality/specs
if you want it to cost as agreed and the quality/specs as agreed, you will have to wait

you get the idea

This helicopter is 100% VFR only; even the certified version cannot be flown in IMC. But in the US, the ONLY limitation of "experimental" aircraft is that they cannot be used commercially, except for training. There are tons of IFR/IMC-capable experimental airplanes for example. Anyway, the HX50 can definitely be flown at night here, and with no passenger limit. But if you're in the UK, being limited to GB does seem like a pretty big disadvantage. So perhaps the HX, if it ever actually exists, will primarily be sold overseas.

If you have a spare couple of hours....
Interesting updates on the engine, around 1'12". I'm no psychologist but Dr. Hill looks distinctly uncomfortable talking about the changes they are making to the engine design

It's called tap dancing.
I liked the phrase: "It is envisaged to be.." :E
Delays are inevitable, but in his position it must be spun to a positive - it's not a delay, it's a product improvement for your benefit.
Pretty standard stuff for these types of ra-ra events, to keep the punters happy and interested.
My inner cynic is always wary of anyone who only emits positives, but that is his job.
Looking forward to seeing the engine and aircraft at their next broadcast.

Single stage centrifugal compressor, two stage compressor turbine and single stage free power turbine and an annular combustion chamber - not exactly a revolutionary design is it?

With all the R and D available to the major engine manufacturers, if this performance vs weight vs efficiency was possible, why wouldn't they have done it already?

Do Hill helicopters risk being overtaken by electric technology?

Snake oil rings a bell?

We’re all just over the Hill :E

Why are you 'sure'?

Their intention is to meet or exceed all of the CS-27 requirements for HC50, and to meet or exceed almost all of them for HX50 too.

Start from everything combined burn tested for the interior and per frame all in is under 1M sterling?

Bell still pulling their hair for not leaving part 29 for their 429.

The idea of an electric helicopter is laughable; there is a reason why there are literally none, not even proofs of concept. There are electric ultra-efficient airplanes and they have an endurance of one hour at most.

I found the video very interesting and candid and it gave me more confidence that they are actually doing things. He said he expects to have a couple on the floor at the next conference around late spring or summer 2023, but it doesn't sound like they would actually be working prototypes. But who knows.

I’m amazed the myth of the Hill helicopter ever being a reality has lasted so long. And it wouldn’t matter if it wasn’t for the fact that presumably a reasonable number or people have been induced to put deposits into what is bound to be a doomed business.

Why? Because if it sounds too good to be true, it is….. Simply look at their web site headlines: 140kts, 700nm range, 5000 hrs engine TBO. And all for just £495k. Never going to happen. Or even get close. The existing manufacturers have vastly more competency and have been infinitely better funded than Hill, and haven’t got near that performance in 50 years. Sorry, but it’s just laughable. And if the industry giants of Leonardo, Airbus, Bell and Robinson don’t think it viable to make their own engines, how on earth can Hill consider it? Perhaps because at least they’re keeping the myth in-house, with no OEM supplier to undermine it…..

To be fair though, fabulous futuristic shape and interior design. And amazing how far that seems to have taken them.

I see where you went wrong, the existing manufacturers got this right decades ago and have been sitting on it so they can keep raking in HUGE profits.
It only really costs a fiver to make a typical aircraft. :}

It sounds too good to be true, but it's definitely not an actual scam. Their goals may be overly ambitious, time will tell, but the existing manufacturers are using very old technology and that's largely due to the very high cost of certification. Hill is creating almost everything by themselves which seems crazy and would require a million certifications for the HC50 version, but the HX50 is more realistic if it works. And unlike airplanes, there are very few experimental helicopters because the private helicopter market is very small at the moment, so manufacturers have largely ignored it. Robinson is one of the few exceptions.

Very old technology? That “revolutionary” turbine they’re designing isn’t new..

Maybe it's made from pixie dust and unicorn's tears.................