Hill Helicopters HX50
 

All I know is many have tried. I hope they succeed.

No pictures of this new design, either of an actual prototype or technical drawings... what does it look like or is it that secret we will have to wait ?

provided some help and advice on the heli, when people see pictures of it they will be blown away ! Jason has come up with some great ideas and it is a long way down the design stage . When it come to fruition no one will buy anything else, you will wave goodbye to Robison and all other 4 to 5 seat helicopter sbeing used for private use.
I am sorry I can't tell you more from a confidentiality point of view, which is a shame as the mock up pix etc etc are ...........

Thats a bold statement that we will be waving goodbye to Robinson. It will have to be some machine, which we wait eagerly to see ? It will be difficult to replace the Robinsons, Bruno Guimbal has done a terrific job and sold many Cabris but Robinsons still seem to be flying out of the factory.

Helipixman, you havent seen what I have seen !

and in 10 years time Tesla is ......

Hopefully there is some magic new transmission mechanism that will allow pilots who don't have to worry about power any more not have to worry about the drive line either!!

Unless they are designing their super new engine to run on Hydrogen fuel cells they are nowhere near being cutting edge.

Judging by their blurb they are re-writing the laws of physics to make a 5-seat helicopter quiet, efficient and cheap to run.......

Crab

Just wait and see, I was gobsmacked when I saw what they have come up with. The designers have more aerodynamics qualifications etc etc than most of the rest us put together !

I'm sure they are very clever but Ray Prouty had a lot to say about how you don't get something for nothing with helicopter design.

From what you are saying I can't wait to see it. When do you expect we will be able to see this mind blowing machine ?

What is an unprecedented level of safety? One that will never crash? Or does it have a dozen airbags?

Every aircraft ever designed has an unprecedented level of safety, until it has its first crash, just like all the precedents.

And comfort? Reclining armchairs for the pilots? Aircon that works as well as a car's does?

Running on a variety of fuels... hmm...when they get it to run on water, then it will be one that commands attention. Should Rolls-Royce and other engine makers be worried?

Silencing usually comes with penalties in weight and in efficiency. The designs to muffle the scream of a compressor will be interesting to see, as will be the exhaust muffler which doesn't affect the back pressure on the turbine.

Hughes 500 is apparently quite excited, but if they want people to open their wallets, a bit more information is needed.

Guys I am excited about it but I have to respect being asked not to say ! I have known about the designs for around 18 months and have watched things evolve. The easiest thing i can say is, take the best of all the different types put them all together with some very fancy aerodynamics and latest technology whether that be materials, blades or engines.
Just to tease the owner lurks on this site !
Happy Xmas

Because that has never been tried before.....

I don't mean to sound too cynical Hughes, but it sounds like the Labour manifesto - too good to be true.

The only thing I can think of is that they are building a next generation autogyro rather than an actual helicopter.

Is that lurking owner you by any chance??

He was saying it 40 years ago. Things have moved on a bit...

It's a good everybody doesn't get out of bed every morning with this attitude, you'd all still be flying around in one of these...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....14d640f167.jpg

I've worked on a couple of Innovate UK projects.
The don't hand over that kind of money on a whim, there will have been some rigorous due diligence done.
I suspect H500 is right, there's something Innovate UK have got excited about...

Yes, I spoke with the entrepreneur behind it last year and he has some great ideas and an end price which doesn't seem possible. We shall see, I hope.

Their website https://www.dynamiq-eng.co.uk/ is nerd heaven. Seems like they've been at the bleeding edge of engineering consulting for over a decade and have provided quite a variety of customer solutions over that time.

Dig deeper in that website and there's an announcement that they're designing their own sub 500kw gas turbine engine. There's also an innovative centrifugal compressor fan design although I'm not sure if it's related.

As for the secret helicopter, I just hope it's sporty enough in its handling rather than something boring made to ferry golfers and their golf clubs.

Crab

Actually you probably have never owned or had to pay personally for owning a machine. Only when you do that, do you actually truly realise that the manufacturers view is, they are doing us a favour in letting them buy one of their machines.
The average manufacturer takes the Michael in what they charge for not only their product but also the parts that go with it
Here are a few examples
Tie bar for a Hu269, basically a steel tube 14 inches ling with 2 welded flat plates 2 inches across. I can have one fabricated out of the best steel for around £ 60, manufacturers price $1350 ...really
Auguta Westland pressure relief switch for AC system 14000 Euros.... for a switch ( no I have got the zero's correct)
A few years ago now SA341 clutch, from factory in Bosnia with no JAA paperwork £ 8k, from Airbus with JAA Form 1 £30k ( by the way Airbus got it from factory in Bosnia, so made £20k on a piece of paper )
MD last year put up the price for a main rotor gearbox from $ 85k to around $125, what other business would get away with it, unless of course it is selling to the military !
Remove the ridiculousness of what goes on in the industry and see what happens ! Too much resistance to change, which unfortunately stifles too many industries
So hopefully we will see a machine that is cheap to run goes like sh1t off a shovel and is made to a higher crash worthiness than any other current machine.
Crab you might even be able to afford one on your mil pension !

Hughes - I am quite aware of the costs of spares and how much the manufacturers profiteer on them but I'm not sure how that makes this innovative design (for which we can't see any pictures or have a description) the new sliced bread of the helicopter world.

Designing your own gas turbine would be expensive enough and the latest composite materials don't come cheap either - an old schoolmate has his own company that specialises in them.

I presume all the secrecy is because they don't have the patents approved yet.

However, if it is as good as you say and the price is right, I may well buy one:)

How much under 500Kw are they aiming for? The R66 with the RR300 puts out 167Kw continuous or 200Kw for 5 min take off and comes in at 91Kg so it will have to be a significant increase on that to meet the claims.

Are you sure RR would be so easily beaten?

Unless they're going hybrid I don't see what can be cutting edge. A couple of certified electric motors with a small battery and a cheap motor to charge it all. Once the battery technology catches up you can swap the motor out for a battery pack and go all electric. Obviously there are tradeoffs to be made weight Vs payload but a modern electric motor can generate 2-300hp for a 20kg weight so it's entirely plausible.

Crab, engine bits are way way cheaper to make than you think. My next door neighbour used to make compressor wheels for RR 250, they cost about the same as a good tyre for my Landrover discovery !!!! RR used to put them out at over 10 times that amount

Another helicopter start up was in Devon till it moved a couple of times

Pegasus Helicopter Group PLC ::(

This helicopter has actually been registered with the CAA....

G-DRJH Hill Helicopters HX50 to Dynamiq Engineering Ltd on 1.10.19
Only information given is it will have 1 engine with a MTOW of 1650kg

I have had an email from the owner and he has the right not to disclose any information at this time and maybe we should all respect that. Wait and see what is produced and then I am sure a huge debate will follow on here......

Hughes500 - I expect your neighbour didn't have to recoup the R and D costs for those compressor wheels, unlike RR. If Hill helicopters are actually designing and building an sub 500Kw gas turbine, that is where the costs will be, not just milling the components.

Crab
ER what R and D costs ? The US mil paid for all that in the 1960's The RR 300 and 500 engines are basically a c20B. Guess what a C20 B is a derivative of a C18 the original engine for the 206 and 500. Which came from the T63 the engine designed to go in the OH 6 and OH 58. Actually I am wrong not paid for by the US mil but the US taxpayer

Well there's not much point in disputing it either way since there's scant verifiable information either way. If it does indeed incorporate a bunch of novel and unseen technology, I am curious how the developer has integrated the research, testing, and certification costs into their projected MSRP... that is not purely a jab at them as there may be carryover applications to different industries which can mitigate that fraction.

Have it your way Hughes - I hope you are not disappointed if the mock-up fails to become a viable reality - when it first flys then maybe there will be something to get excited about.

Will they have it ready in time for Santa to use for his Christmas deliveries?

Crab you are the most negative person on this forum !
What traffic ,remember I said for private use. Shortly flying schools will be allowed to train people on Permit to fly machines
I really do hope it comes to fruition, it is probably the first time some one has actually tried to make a helicopter that is more like a car in the sense of technology, space, performance, cost and reliability. I sense there is an ever increasing gap in the market which is not being filled by anyone in the private market. The only current machines out there harp back to the 1960's with their technology.
R66 an aluminium helicopter with its design going back to the 70's for the airframe and 60's for the engine
505 mostly 1960's tech
500 as above
480 as above
Cabri, as above in terms of an outdated engine but getting there with the airframe
EC120 well an overweight expensive machine

I do not have the capacity to do the numbers but I have been thinking for a while that a helicopter with an electric transmission may well be a viable option real soon now. The next question is, does it look like a helicopter or a say four (or more) fan drone?

If the latter, no more Jesus nut, no more single points of failure (close anyway).

Option to consider a smaller than otherwise cruise engine with battery boost for take off, landing and emergency use.

Or maybe it's too soon?

Why, just because I don't act as an echo chamber for your enthusiastic optimism? Seems a bit harsh when nothing you have said has been backed up by evidence. Cynical maybe but negative?

When I worked at Redhill, over 20 years ago now, there was a small hanger next door, belonging to Cierva. They were working on a twin piston Helicopter called the Grasshopper, it had contra rotating main rotors, and large tail booms with no tail rotor.
I saw it flying once, and it looked very smooth. I assume they ran out of money, like a lot of projects, but I believe it did actually fly at Farnborough.

Cierva Grasshopper last flew sometime in the early 70s I think. I recall seeing three separate airframes in a hangar/shed just west of Bristow's main hangar when I visited in early 1978, pretty sure the project was moribund by then.

Crab

I am just not allowed to say anything sorry, what I do know is really exciting. I really hope it is a goer, it would seem so. Whats more it is British which would be really nice

On the failure mode front, an electric quadcopter type design eliminates some but creates new ones. The potential for asymmetric lift conditions and very low inertia (or even inherently self-slowing if the motors are not clutched) are a few that come to mind immediately. That isn't to say they cannot be overcome and the extreme reliability and simplicity of a well-designed electric motor are huge benefits in that regard.

I would just like to say that while I have some doubts about this HX50 thing I do sincerely hope it lives up to the hype and is very successful.

They're already aiming higher than quad.

He looks like he is holding onto his balls with his left hand in case of a mishap, not a collective or similar. Male helicopter pilots don't get do do that.