I think the blame for the cheap part, if it is true has to lie with the oil/gas company that has contracted HNZ.
If money wasn't an option why did they change from BHL to HNZ, especially if Bristows were so shiny with all the SAR guys to match.
The company's letting the contracts out are the ones driving the prices down so if HNZ can do it cheaper good on them but the customer gets what they pay for.

I suspect the rush to a cheaper service will only change when a evenings mainstream news coverage starts with pictures of a lot of people in orange being pulled from the water. Australian operators & O&G companies are fortunate in that the rest of the country has no idea what goes in in the NWS or Timor Sea.

Like I said you get what you pay for, I'm sure BHL have some pretty clever marketing people that know a lot more detail of the contract than I certainly do and I suspect more than you as well and would have put in a price to reflect the service they could provide, if price wasn't an issue for the customer why would they have not chosen BHL?

I think that is the whole point here - it costs a certain amount to provide a 24-Hr all weather SAR service, BHL know what that is and will have bid with a modest (or even zero) profit on top (I think they bid at a loss for UKSAR).

It is easy enough to undercut the competition if you are prepared to cut corners or don't accurately know what the costs of that service are.

So in going for the lowest bidder, the customer has ended up with a bag of crap instead of what they asked for. Surely CASA should pull the plug on this operation or the customer should sack HNZ.

And its completely disingenuous for HNZ to blame the regulator for being 3 months late on delivery of a SAR service. Its any operators responsibility inline with bidding a contract to ensure they have the ops manuals, maintenance systems, training procedures and practices ready to go. If the regulator does an audit and finds you completely wanting in these areas you can hardly blame CASA for not having your s#@t in a pile its complete garbage!!!

Well if another company came along and took your job away from you by underbidding and then failing to deliver, how would you feel?

Crab, it's taking you a long time to understand the commercial world! They didn't just come along, they were probably invited. And it would still hurt if the successful new bidder provided more money and a better service. Swear, curse, join management ..... but take it as an opportunity for pastures new!

No, the commercial world is very easy to understand - money talks and everything else comes second - doesn't make it good practice though.

Keynsian economics suggests that competition lowers prices and raises quality - sadly that theory doesn't survive first contact with reality where we just see lower prices and poorer standards, not a great way to do aviation.

I don't know about that, however the shame is its bad for the whole industry when such poor performance in such a critical role is allowed to enter the fray. I don't know how you feel about doing early and late shuttles involving two hours at night overwater in an extremely remote area without any SAR coverage, doesn't fill me with joy.

Bobbin' in the Oggin in the dark - no thanks.

What are you worried about?
Your life jacket has a light, and whistle, for attracting attention!




At least it's warm water.........

Yes, the attention of sharks!

Twist - have you ever done night wets? Not a nice environment even in warm water when you find yourself alone.

Don't worry about the sharks , its the croc's that will finish you

Or incompetent SAR operators like HNZ!!:ugh::ugh:

Yes, but that only happened because the Govt and MoD were determined to divest themselves of costs and especially those of new helicopters.

The difference is the BHL did stand up on time, albeit not quite within the contract terms as far as aircraft were concerned.

ATSB is investigating...


https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2017-095/

Seems to have all gone quiet....

#tumbleweed

Crab it would appear that you are soothsayer.

Brother, I gather that there is time for you to qualify as a SAR pilot after all...:rolleyes:

I have heard that Bristow have been asked to provide (continue to provide) LIMSAR for Shell and Inpex until the end of the year, due to the ongoing ATSB/CASA investigation into HNZ's "serious training incident".

That will be at least 6 months since the proposed contract start date, which was already watered down to be LIMSAR only.

Shell and Inpex are expecting HNZ to graduate to AWSAR 24/7 in February 18. Surely that can't be a realistic possibility, with the rate of progress at the moment?

Given that there are thousands of workers off shore, with Shell's flagship vessel Prelude inplace and the Ichthys at full capacity, the imminent cyclone season must be making the management of those companies slightly nervous (or maybe embarrassed).

To think that they could have had a 24/7 solution in place from the start.

Is there a precedent of an operator wining a contract (a contract that appears to have been modified to suit them at the last minute) and then not providing the service for at least 6 months? Surely the clients would tear it up and realise their mistake.

Is there anybody in the industry who can explain this abject failing?

Surely it cant be price alone? The HNZ bid must have been really cheap in comparison to the competitors, and presumably there are penalties for not fronting up?

Anyway safety first eh.......?:oh:

It is barking mad - someone will get hung drawn and quartered if there is an incident/accident that needs a full SAR response and people die:ugh:

I think the old adage of 'If you think safety is expensive, try having an accident' applies here.

Crab, you are speaking rubbish based on your limited industry knowledge outside England.

There is no regulatory requirement for Full SAR or any SAR in Australia. Oil companies provide Dedicated Lim SAR equipped aircraft with crew on site, 24 hour medevac cover incorporating Doctor and Paramedic on the helicopter as well as a 24 hour dedicated standby medical jet service also medically crewed.

Full SAR is a nice to have. With the above in place funded by industry on a “voluntary” basis, no one is going to get hung drawn and quartered.

Just because it's not required by regulations doesn't make it right, I wouldn't want to bet the coroner will always take the same view!

When I saw your moniker 'industry insider' i naively thought that we might get an answer to some of the questions. :*
Its good to know that boats don't sink at night, people don't fall over board after sunset, and nobody gets ill on a vessel without a deck after 6pm. Oh yeah and the weather is always good in Australia at night too.:=

Regardless, I.I. is quite right about the SAR support here in Oz. We're not supported in any way, shape or form in the manner that you may be used to in the UK before or after CivSAR came about.

Indeed, primary responsibility for SAR in most States is held by the State police force regardless of the capability or otherwise of their air assets. The coroner would be most unlikely to make an adverse finding because of a shortfall in a private company funded system.

On these multi billion dollar projects in places as extremely remote as the Browse basin the duty and onus of care for the welfare of the offshore workers should reside with the project leads.

Last time I flew past Browse Island I certainly didn't see a police station!

Shell did set a precedence with the EC 225 AWSAR. HNZ did win the tender with a transitional bid. Unfortunately for them and Shell (& lastly, in the corporate minds, the offshore worker) this service had been a little slow in getting off the ground. If Shell were serious about safety, then they would have at least a medivac aircraft stationed offshore. This would half the time that it would take to recover a casualty to the beach..

Industry Insider - a quick look at the Shell Australia website sees them (and their partner at the time CHC) proudly proclaiming an AWSAR service in Broome from 2015. Shell's contract for covering the Prelude FLNG was for AWSAR, so it appears they were willing to pay for an AWSAR service. Perhaps their partner in this joint venture doesn't agree and its them that talked the quality down?

Numpty, the UK version of that - Jigsaw - didn't really take-off (no pun unintended...). I understand that the concept was for several helos off shore but it settled with one, based a platform on occasions but more often back at Aberdeen.

It did seem to take off in Norway..

But when they were required to do some actual SAR, they didn't perform very well.

You really do seem to be a bitter old man Crab....

We never flew past: always had to land and pump fuel :p

But what that has to do with the price of fish fillets and this thread......:confused:

Your comment John re the ridiculous situation whereby the state police having primacy for SAR response with no appropriate assets and the nearest location 400+ kms away from the Browse patch.

None I would think, certainly of the larger or more complex contracts - the proof is in the on time delivery; as to the maturity and true capability of the organisation.

I disagree on your viewpoint.

HNZ has a global reach now with crew change contracts in Australia partnered with PHI and the now famous SAR contract. They have contracts in Asia and until recently in Halifax also teamed with PHI. Remember, HNZ is now a brand as well as just the old HNZ.

Yes, the SAR contract in Australia has been delayed by some unforeseen circumstances but to dismiss HNZ as incapable is foolhardy. Like it or not, HNZ is providing a service that its customers seem to like at a price the customers seem to like. Oil is now set at around $50, noncompetitive operators who misjudge their competition will be the losers.

That global reach doesn’t seem to help!

Numpty Aussie - not bitter, just a SAR professional who is tired of companies/outfits claiming, under false pretenses, to have what for many of us were hard-won experiences, skills and abilities.

Barbados that's exactly the point - they are NOT providing the service that their customers asked for.

Certainly was the case in my part of Oz, they would call in the necessary assets needed to effect rescue, and exercised control. They had a unit dedicated to the SAR management role. Could have changed since my day.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/search-and-r...-in-australia/

332tiger, that statement is manifestly untrue. I'd be very careful saying such things, especially given the Announcement at the head of every forum: Notice regarding post responsibility and anonymity :hmm:

332 Tiggy

I fly these aircraft every day and do the preflight pilot inspection. Theres no INPEX logo painted on them at all and no logo sewn into the seats.