I suppose that depends on your definition of fail.
The word was they got issued a 'Show Cause' notice potentially in relation to winching. Also heard that they imported 2 Canadian SAR specialist pilots with validated CASA licenses, but as Canada don't have winching endorsements, they didn't allow them to perform any winching ops. |
Also heard that they imported 2 Canadian SAR specialist pilots with validated CASA licenses, but as Canada don't have winching endorsements, they didn't allow them to perform any winching ops. At least I'm sure it was entirely impartial and absolutely no prospects of any COI issues....... |
Knowing who the inspectors were, I'm sure there wasn't even the hint of that! ;)
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Originally Posted by rrekn
(Post 9844667)
I suppose that depends on your definition of fail.
The word was they got issued a 'Show Cause' notice potentially in relation to winching. Also heard that they imported 2 Canadian SAR specialist pilots with validated CASA licenses, but as Canada don't have winching endorsements, they didn't allow them to perform any winching ops. |
Originally Posted by Brother
(Post 9844926)
Not a big deal, paperwork mostly. won't take long for it to be all up and running, it will all be sorted in a couple of weeks.
Meanwhile we are flat out busy with crew change for the new inpex facilities and now the new shell prelude floating lng has just arrived as well and inpex fpso on the way. |
They were offered the S92 current SAR training team who were immediately available in Canada after the Halifax SAR contract had finished and most were rejected. TRI's wouldn't be allowed by CASA to transfer qualifications. And to top it all off no line trainers or SAR 92 captains with any experience on type. Sounds very much like visas or not foreigners definitely not welcome.
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Hedski, visas or not. Australia has a surplus of qualified pilots at the moment and frankly, it won't get better. You're unlikely to get a CASA official to admit that foreigners aren't welcome. As a gauge, on another thread, co-pilots are required however they must already have the B412 rating on their licence. That's a big ask for a 500 hour total time position. But there will be plenty of over qualified pilots throwing their resumes in the ring for that.
Cheers FP |
Originally Posted by Frying Pan
(Post 9845495)
...As a gauge, on another thread, co-pilots are required however they must already have the B412 rating on their licence. That's a big ask for a 500 hour total time position...
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Foreign pilots have always been welcome in Australia.
However, rightly (in my opinion) or wrongly, Australian pilots get priority in the current tough times. I'd suspect it's similar in other countries. |
Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
(Post 9845523)
Foreign pilots have always been welcome in Australia....
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I personally work with many foreign pilots, almost all of whom are now Australian pilots. Some still live in Australia's most Eastern state - New Zealand. (Almost spiritual Aussies, and covered by the two way "Trans Tasman agreement".
Again, in the current employment environment, bringing pilots in on any kind of visa is a total BS move, and reflects dreadfully on any company low class enough to do it. (And reflects dreadfully on any government incompetent enough to allow it.) |
Originally Posted by Brother
(Post 9845602)
Drifty
Didn't actually "fail" it so correct, not big deal. |
Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
(Post 9845622)
So you can squash the Rumour that someone else is covering HNZs SAR contract due the "not a big deal" issue?
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I hope BRS have upped the rates for the extension until the paper work issues have been cleared up.
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Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
(Post 9845523)
Foreign pilots have always been welcome in Australia.
However, rightly (in my opinion) or wrongly, Australian pilots get priority in the current tough times. I'd suspect it's similar in other countries. |
I'm certain that I heard a story once of an almost identical situation on the Brent offshore contract, years ago. North Scottish were awarded the contracted with AS365's, but had been unable to get all the crews to the required levels of experience and currency to meet Shell's demanding requirements for the contract. At the last minute, Shell approached Bristow with a request to extend the contract on an interim basis until North Scottish could fulfill the contractual requirements. Bristow responded that they certainly could, the instant that Shell signed a new multi-year year contract, or the machines would be leaving at midnight on the day of contract termination and be re-assigned to other contracts and be unavailable.
The contract was signed and continued for a good number of years and I believe that North Scottish was in some manner compensated for the investment they had made. Of course, this may just be a good bar version of the actual events? I'm sure someone will know that real version. |
Originally Posted by Hedski
(Post 9848029)
But when those local pilots do not have any experience on the complex type being used...
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Operators employ foreign pilots over qualified local pilots for reasons known only to them. |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9848858)
There are plenty of qualified and experienced local pilots that get ticks in all the boxes. Operators employ foreign pilots over qualified local pilots for reasons known only to them.
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Originally Posted by Hedski
(Post 9849288)
...Glass cockpit SAR pilots then, no?...
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9849744)
Glass cockpit helicopters have been operating in Australia for the past 20 years...SAR optioned helicopters even longer. S92 is a more recent introduction to the national fleet. But a helicopter is a helicopter so surely there is ample local experience out there to fully crew all Australian requirements without needing to import foreign labor. It's a sign of the times moving away from expatriate helicopter pilots: China, Thailand, Indonesia, Nigeria, and many other jurisdictions are gradually closing up shop to foreigners and hiring and training only national pilots.
I'd suggest, as mentioned by others, the reason for hiring overseas crew is down to the lower pay and conditions they might be prepared to accept. (Especially if still residing in a country with a lower cost of living.) Most experienced Australian pilots are hesitant to work for a company leading the race to the bottom. Ironically, the rumour is; that part of the reason for HNZs inability to provide contracted service is the failure of some overseas crew to validate/convert their qualifications correctly/sufficiently. |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9849744)
Glass cockpit helicopters have been operating in Australia for the past 20 years...SAR optioned helicopters even longer. S92 is a more recent introduction to the national fleet. But a helicopter is a helicopter so surely there is ample local experience out there to fully crew all Australian requirements without needing to import foreign labor. It's a sign of the times moving away from expatriate helicopter pilots: China, Thailand, Indonesia, Nigeria, and many other jurisdictions are gradually closing up shop to foreigners and hiring and training only national pilots.
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Ironically, the rumour is; that part of the reason for HNZs inability to provide contracted service is the failure of some overseas crew to validate/convert their qualifications correctly/sufficiently. HNZ were offered current crews flying the very SAR airframe they later received |
Originally Posted by Hedski
(Post 9849805)
With modern fully automated glass cockpit all weather sar aircraft your assertion is absolutely not the case...
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9849833)
I include the Lloyd/CHC RAAF SAR as an example of a legitimate SAR capability, although not full glass. And we had modern fully automated glass cockpit helicopters at Esso 20 years ago. Pilots who've been flying those types of helicopters for the past 20 years, and there are plenty of them, would be perfectly capable of doing the same in an S92. And I point out, when we first got the full-glass cockpits at Esso, nobody had any experience on glass cockpit helicopters then. We just got in it, got out there, and got the job done, no drama at all. These over-blown experience requirements that Aviation Advisors mysteriously conjur up and cut and paste into contracts are a joke and shouldn't be used as an excuse for an operator to say "we can't find experienced local pilots to do the job". And I also point out, Esso have been flying helicopters in Bass Strait for 50 years without a single accident.
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There are plenty of people who will claim to be SAR experienced and SAR capable - only to be caught out when the chips are down. An easy label to claim but not an easy one to own properly.
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Exactly. And when everyone in theatre has only flown by day as regulations prevent night ops who's got the ability to go live on a new type with more capability to get you into trouble as much as out of it operating at night when nobody there has before!!!
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Originally Posted by Hedski
(Post 9850380)
Exactly. And when everyone in theatre has only flown by day as regulations prevent night ops who's got the ability to go live on a new type with more capability to get you into trouble as much as out of it operating at night when nobody there has before!!!
Regulations don't prevent night ops. Most OS contracts don't allow normal passenger transfers at night. Medevacs, and even freight only flights at night are ok, and are not unusual for regular OS flight crews. Many of the Australian SAR crews are NVG qualified. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 9850355)
There are plenty of people who will claim to be SAR experienced and SAR capable - only to be caught out when the chips are down...
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Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
(Post 9850419)
..Regulations don't prevent night ops. Most OS contracts don't allow normal passenger transfers at night. Medevacs, and even freight only flights at night are ok, and are not unusual for regular OS flight crews.. |
Stop perpetuating the glass cockpit gotta have time on type BS mr. aviation advisor. Medium helicopters generally have 2 engines, 2 hydraulic systems, a main transmission, various gearboxes, a DC and an AC electrical system, navigation and communication equipment. Just because the information is displayed on "ooooh glass displays" doesn't change the information. Companies should be hiring experienced local helicopter pilots without time on type and giving them the ratings. This would happen more if it wasn't for bozo aviation advisors advising only to hire with "minimum xxx hours" on type
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Originally Posted by kdj123
(Post 9850516)
Stop perpetuating the glass cockpit gotta have time on type BS mr. aviation advisor.... etc etc
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top perpetuating the glass cockpit gotta have time on type BS mr. aviation advisor. Medium helicopters generally have 2 engines, 2 hydraulic systems, a main transmission, various gearboxes, a DC and an AC electrical system, navigation and communication equipment. Just because the information is displayed on "ooooh glass displays" doesn't change the information. Companies should be hiring experienced local helicopter pilots without time on type and giving them the ratings. This would happen more if it wasn't for bozo aviation advisors advising only to hire with "minimum xxx hours" on type Are you advocating that a potential SAR crew (both FO and Capt) straight out of a simulator, even having completed the SAR Traiing course that deals with the SAR modes of the S92 both be placed directly on a contract to fulfill "all weather" SAR support? Just curious. |
Originally Posted by Scardy
(Post 9850713)
kdj123,
Are you advocating that a potential SAR crew (both FO and Capt) straight out of a simulator, even having completed the SAR Traiing course that deals with the SAR modes of the S92 both be placed directly on a contract to fulfill "all weather" SAR support? Just curious. I still havnt figured out this spell check yet thou!? This is Australia and when times are tough, we should look after local first. |
Maybe come wet season they'll figure out that fancy FMS. It is not the fancy FMS that I was referring to. It is the complexity of the higher modes (SAR modes) of the S92. Yes, I agree AUS pilots are totally capable of figuring out the systems. What I was referring g too was the fact that does a operator wish to place two crew, new to the system together in a aircraft that both have little time on (only sim). Regarding your all weather statement I agree that your weather may be different but I am assuming that the crew can / may be tasked at night. Were I cone from night equals dark, dark is dark and can be just as challenging as solid IF. It actually dark on a clear night sometimes leads to a false sense of "this should be easy" and crews may not be as alert as solid IMC. Been there done that:ugh: |
Originally Posted by Scardy
(Post 9852058)
..What I was referring g too was the fact that does a operator wish to place two crew, new to the system together in a aircraft that both have little time on (only sim)...
Something like, the newly minted S92 SAR Captain will need x hours of supervised line operational flying with a training Captain before being released to the line with a co-pilot. Same for the co-pilot, so much supervised flying with an experienced Captain. You wouldn't get 2 newly minted S92 pilots fresh out of a zero time sim qualification being crewed together. |
I think the point Gullible was trying to make has been missed.
Australia has all weather SAR experience. For 25 years the RAAFSAR contract has required an all weather capability auto hover aircraft. Granted it is a different aircraft however the principal of night operation remains the same and is not new to the country. There would be no shortage of pilots that have overwater night experience. I personally would much prefer a new "modern glass cockpit" machine than an S76 that is under powered with a dated auto hover system that has some interesting quirks that require immediate intervention lest you get wet feet. |
Originally Posted by SLFMS
(Post 9852563)
..I personally would much prefer a new "modern glass cockpit" machine than an S76 that is under powered... |
Whatever they get, it will be better than what we used in the 70s and 80s - B model Hueys, 1 engine, no autopilot, no GPS, no FMS, no radalt (though some did have one) and only a single ADF and an FM homing set.
We got the job done then, they will do a better job now. |
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
(Post 9852624)
- B model Hueys...
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