Vie, the US DDTC manage a regime of shifting sands so we will only know if we go to buy some goggles NOW.

S-92 have been available with an NVG fit at 2 bases since last summer. Little bits of information are out there indicating that not only Sumburgh and Stornoway guys but the Transition Team and some of those destined for other bases have been flying them.

And if you were Bristow would you have your Transition Team doing AW189 simulator work and flying the O&G aircraft and prototypes during the same period? You'd be stupid not to, surely. The DfT man is watching.

jimf671,


Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I shall try to keep up in future!


CD

TOTD - there are 2 flts worth of S-92 crews who are probably trained up to speed on NVG but those 2 flts worth have to keep on providing the capability at those flights.

In the next 14 months there have to be another 7 flts worth of crews trained on type and in role including NVG - whether or not that is possible depends on the size of the training empire and the availability of the aircraft - are there actually enough instructors to do the training yet?

Most of the mil personnel in the managed transition are still in the mil and haven't even started their type and role training yet - it sounds like a big ask to me and one must ask the question about how operationally competent/capable the transition teams, who will pick up the slack, are going to be if there is to be a seamless transfer of ownership without capability gaps.

I suggest that the number of such flights, if we assume that they include only the operational flights and the transition team, is three. If we then look at the fact that there are also aircrew out there who took the plunge and left early to join Bristow plus others who joined from other sources then maybe there are more than three. Many of us here know some of those guys and know that they are out there flying Bristow SAR aircraft.

Why would it not be so?

Try zero. Nobody is flying a Bristow aircraft on NVG hence the non winch equipped airframe to commence training. Majority of the ex military incomers have no glass cockpit experience. Some are struggling to get to grips with the technology not to mention the use of NVIS when combining such with glass cockpit etc. The individuals concerned are doing their utmost and committing their time but lack of organisation and leadership is where the failings and associated delays will be. Whether they get away with it by delivering on time remains to be seen, what will be delivered also is open to debate.

April 1st, the day of fools awaits......:{

And if they're so well manned up why is the publicly broadcast face of Bristow oil and gas ringing previous applicants arrogantly telling them why they should want to work for Bristow and slandering other operators despite the non commuting roster being insisted at remote bases where commuting was the norm since 2007 and even before then for some during Bristow's previous tenure???

It's all going terribly well.............................................:hmm:

Standby for the continual drip drip drip of misery from the one who says he hopes for a successful outcome:D

Crab; I'm so glad I don't have to work with you. You must be an absolute misery to work with.

I think we should call you "Captain Fantastic" from now on as you are clearly a flying God.

not sure why you think that but you would be 100% wrong.

Just because I know a bit about flying training (only been a QHI since 1989) and SAR training in particular (since 1990) doesn't make me a 'flying God' but it does allow me to pass comment on the sort of stuff I have delivered for many years in different roles:ok:

If you know better I will gladly bow to your superior knowledge.

I don't know the inner workings of the Bristow training machine but, when people who do - like sumpor stylee- have what appears to be valid information, who am I to argue?

Captain Fantastic,

I have no superior knowledge compared to your good self. I'm sure of that.

You are basing your criticism of the process based on what you read on here. Give me strength!

I would be surprised if anyone on the "inside" was posting here.

And you are basing your faith and belief in the process on what??????

Crab,

You may turn out to be right that SAR is going to hell in a handcart, but with five months to go, you are too forceful in stating this as an inevitable fact. I'm aware that the existing S-92 bases cannot be abandoned to provide cover at Inverness (but, really, thank you for pointing this out :yuk:), but I'm pretty sure that Bristow would consider paying some overtime to the qualified individuals to allow them to man the existing and new bases simultaneously if that's what it takes to overcome any short-term deficiency in crews. And if, by April, noone has got the hang of NVG ops, will this stop the handover? Bristow and politicians alike will claim that a serviceable but temporarily-non-NVG S-92 (or AW189) offers a better capability than an NVG- and water-boiler-equipped but unserviceable Sea King. Would you approve of this? No. Would this be an ideal situation? No. Would it stop the transition from mil to civ? Probably not (but unlike you, I don't claim to know for sure).

TOTD

PS Sumpor, is it unreasonable to use a non-winch airframe for NVG training? Assuming (please correct me if I'm wrong) that there is no appetite for Bristow to do NVG winching, it seems a fair use of assets. I don't doubt that the work-up is a challenge, but with 5 months to run and plenty of darkness to practise in, I would guess that there may still be time to create enough people with enough proficiency.

Don't worry, many of the ex-mil guys will feel right at home...

TOTD - I haven't said anywhere that SAR is going to hell in a handcart - to my knowledge, Bristow have a series of contingency plans to cover such eventualities as the 189 not getting SAR certification on time.

I know they had to prove to DfT that they could provide the service even if things went wrong.

However, I'm not surprised that there are teething problems and I am sure they will be overcome - but I do hope the MCA are honest about any shortfalls or reduction in capability during the transition.

We all know that eventually the SAR service will be very good but a lot of 'smoke and mirrors' has been used to gloss over the tricky bit in the middle when an ounce of honesty would go a lot further to assuaging onlookers' worries.

PS, I don't think overtime is much of an option when the European working time directive is taken into account.

.. would be very helpful.

I bet they would be if it was going well and and they had something to brag about. ;)

Bearing in mind the unfounded negative response from the (uninformed) press and public when privatised SAR was first announced, frankly I'm not surprised if Bristow are keeping their cards close to their chest. Any hint of things not going to plan A and the media machine will run away with it. We've all seen it happen before in the military!

The fact is, I'm sure those who need to know, know!

SKD - I'm sure you're right. It's sad though that some like Jim, VSF and Captain Fantastic think that if Bristows management are not in the chat rooms here pandering to their needs and interests, there is a cover-up.

I'm sure they have far better things to do.

It certainly seems as though they've left themselves quite a lot to do. Too much some might say.

Au contraire. The gentleman in question is known as 'The Laughing QHI' in some circles, and with good reason. A pure professional and a pleasure to work with.

Good work Fella! :ok:

Cheque's in the post Snag:ok::ok:

It has been stated that 'those in the know' are unlikely to be posting on this thread.


The vitriol contained in some of the responses to comments questioning if things are going smoothly are suggestive of, at the very least, an emotional attachment to the project and, more likely, a vested interest in it.


All of which would imply that 'those in the know' are indeed posting here and very actively too.

Vitriol? That's kinda like .. em .. sumpor, so that can't be right. :E

You couldn't be further from the truth, You would be hard pushed to find a more knowledgeable and professional aviator, who has been responsible for developing many of those who are in fact going to work with Bristow and wouldn't be where they are without his help. It is in fact your loss, and looking at your posts, you could do with some of his humour :)

OMG - this is going to cost me a fortune:ok:;)

Where's my cheque?
 

And he made his fair share of tea.:ok: (for a pilot)

Always a happy crew room with JEvs about I'm being told.....:ok:

Which one? There have been two JEv's in the SAR Force; one on 22, one on 202, both Sqn QHIs. Oh never mind, they were both such good eggs I'd be happy for either of them to father my children! Good luck to them both.

The 22 Sqn one - not the first time I've been outed on pprune SS:ok:

I seem to remember the 202 Sqn one was much better looking

.......but weren't we all in those days:)

A New Law
 

Godwin's Law states' "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".


Similarly, I propose a law for PPrune threads along the lines of:


As a PPrune thread grows longer, and a commenter feels they are starting to lose the argument, the probability of revealing the name of their antagonist approaches 1.


Given that his anonymity has been lifted a number of times by those unable to counter his arguments successfully I propose the above be known as 'Crab's Law'.


Any seconders?

Re NVG and the length of time it might take to train crews.. As an ex military NVG instructor who helped convert a civilian SAR outfit to use them, it seems to me that some are forgetting that civilian SAR ops don't need to be covert.

What requirement is there for winching under NVG? Surely, there isn't one. Use the gogs for nav assist to fly to the scene but go white light once there. Make the place like daylight and look out using the naked eye. It makes life much more simple, rather than practice bleeding!

A new law
 

Seconded.:ok:

That's the way it is done in the Mil (SAR), getting there is sometimes the tricky bit.

Two good posts in quick succession, well done Mr Bloom.:ok:

Shy, the RAF SAR Force is well versed in mixing white light and NVG and you are right, winching on purely NVG references is less than ideal since the relatively poor visual acuity (20/35 at best) on goggles means that very accurate positioning is difficult so white light references are preferable.

The problem is when to transfer from NVG to white light and that depends greatly on the conditions at the time - light levels, cloud, rain etc - we teach pilots to approach the scene on goggles and switch on hover/flood/steerable spot lights to see how much 'blowback' (like using full beam in fog) they get.

Sometimes you can get a good white light picture early and use that to establish the hover for the recce, sometimes you end up completing the recce on goggles and only switch to white light fully just before winching - it depends on the situation and available references.

This where being able to open the cockpit sliding door (a la Wessex and Sea King) really helps - shame that isn't an option with S92 or AW 189!

Over the water for a very small vessel or a person, an NVG hover is often best (if HT/AHT isn't workable) as it often gives you a decent visual horizon to work from - again it depends on the night and the wind (light winds leave you in a recirculating ball of spray which is horribly disorientating on NVG).

Because of the variability of the conditions, a lot of training is required, in different conditions, to make sure the crews can deal with whatever they are faced with. A short 'here are NVGs chaps, it's just more hovering' course might look OK on paper but really won't be adequate unless you are just ticking boxes.

Add in the fact that many flights have to deal with everything from flat calm overwater to ****ty conditions in blowing snow in the hills then you can see that a proper NVG training package will be required.

Hopefully the goggles on the new SAR service will be at least as good as the NG700s currently used by the SAR Force.

Crab's Law - like it. It usually starts with name calling and personal insults before the 'outing' but I have pretty thick skin.

Thanks you Crab. :ok:

If you hadn't turned up then I was expecting these issues to run to ten pages. :ugh:

What, instead of the 61 we are on now;):ok:

They teach...

End of an era and very sorry to see you go.

Some Dutch spotters claim they have seen an AW139 in HM Coastguard colours at AW's Verigiate plant - possibly one of the backup aircraft?

AW139 I-EASS (71) HM Coast Guard full c/s

Such a version of Plan B had been suggested but not corroborated.

How many side windows did the '139' have?