Just seen this job as well in Newquay:

Ive done plenty of that, usually when doing night decks with Crab :)

Don't fancy that salary very much :rolleyes:

Air Steward (Trolley Dolly) starting rate.

In what way is 'wincing' miss spelt?

It should be 'mincing' ;) It is trolley-dolly wages after all! What on earth do they expect to get for £20K????

I guess that it could be tied in with this:

I've done plenty of that as well. Usually after doing night decks with Crab :)

Here is a report of some 'posh hovering' a few weeks ago that may serve to demonstrate aspects of crew roles and the purpose of the SAR helicopter as principally an access tool.

Royal Navy helicopter lifts ill man from cruise vessel

Should have read "whingeing" :p

I'm more impressed by the PR machine that sent this out. Shame it was only a technician and not a paramedic attending though. ;)

Although paramedic skills are often used, it's relatively rare for them to actually make a significant difference towards the casualty's welfare or recovery. You're better off having someone who is a competent and capable helicopter crewman on the wire rather than purely a paramedic. That way sound airmanship decisions will be made by the winchman during the rescue, much to the relief of the remainder of the crew who are reliant upon him coming up with the goods.

You can't go around saying things like that Vie - how will the brave new SAR world reconcile the cheaply available paramedic with a few helicopter hours vs a competent helicopter crewmember who can make sensible medical decisions?

I though that the cheap paramedic route had been proven not to work since so many hours were required to make them competent to deliver their skills on mountainsides, heaving decks, in the water etc etc etc - or is it all about ticking DfT boxes for services rendered?

Do you think maybe 'military wincing' is something that happens every time Crab posts? :E

Bit like jobs requiring a 360 radar.

If reduced spatial awareness when IMC at 200' over the sea in a busy shipping lane is your thing, then a radar that only covers one third of the circle is ideal.

You're still not 'on-message' Vie - new and shiny helicopters are the answer to everything, just because they are new, shiny and fast - whether they actually bring any better capability than (or even as good as) those they replace or not;)

Try not to mention 360 radar, downwash or poor rearcrew pay again:ok:

Or aircraft the size of a bus, or captain's hearing, or run dry, or the customer's skill set?


I really need to get into this. Next week I am supposed to stay on-message for a whole four days. :rolleyes: Life is tough.

Are Dev A recruiting for BHL

Somethings going on. The job ads on the Bristow site are extended for another month.

I can see the scenario -

For a finders Fee Dev A recruit Paramedics and give them a very basic Rescue Swimmer Course to use them on global contracts until they have the DfT/UKSAR 50hrs minimum at which time they are passed over to Bristow to fill Winchman Slots. Lets face it top end Paramedic Pay in the NHS is C£27k (outside London) so the chance of flying for a little bit more money and still being able to work Bank rates for the NHS on days off is attractive.

I said this on another thread but it's worth repeating.


The winchmen training to be paramedics or paramedics training to be winchmen question is an old chestnut that is visited time and again on PPRuNe. If they are considering the latter, the simple question that Bristow need to ask themselves is are they prepared to conduct SAR operations with one member of the crew who has not been selected primarily for his aircrew qualities and secondarily for his ability to perform as SAR rearcrew?


What qualities are we talking about? His speed of thought, his ability to see the big picture, his understanding of the aircraft's safety parameters, his reaction time, his awareness of what the rest of the crew require of him, his vigilance, his athleticism, his resilience, his determination, his ability to think on his feet, his coordination, his ability to prioritise, his adaptability, his ability to offload the pilots and fulfil duties on their behalf (eg navigation), the speed of his comprehension, his performance under pressure, his ability to assimilate multiple inputs without reaching saturation point. The list is long and I've only just touched upon it.


Bristow may well have method of selecting ambulance paramedics who have those qualities and good luck to them if they do. However, these individuals are unlikely to have any/much flying time behind them. That will lead to a lengthy and frustrating training process if Bristow are to ensure that there is no reduction in the quality of SAR service provided in the UK when they take over. As I recall, the 'no reduction in quality' principle is fundamental to the civilianisation of UK Search and Rescue.

O and W
I would think that £42K is a lot more than £27K (Crabs figures)

Don't forget facing forward and giving clear hand signals. ;)

DevA is primarily a pilot oriented organization. The crewman appear to be an afterthought and do not get the support or training needed to fulfill the role which they are expected to undertake. Written contracts are non existent and contractors who do not blindly fall in line with the demands of the company management are cast aside and no longer used. Should the contractor choose to separate from the company however, the contractor is expected to repay thousands of pounds for the training (training is not the correct term for what is actually provided) they have received.

I would advise anyone with an ounce of medical professionalism to seriously consider this before giving up a job with the hopes of obtaining a career in SAR. The thought of transferring from a road unit to a helicopter is an attractive proposition, but please do not think that DevA is a pathway into UKSAR provided by Bristow.

I spy with my little eye...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...f6b28c630&dl=1

Wrong
 

DevA have support ed the passage of Winchoperators to Bristows for UK ands Global SAR…… everyone of them has been a previous UK Aircrewman involved in SAR.

Historically Bristow have recruited very competent an capable Paramedics to be Winchoperators - in fact one their senior team in UK SAR used this route very successfully.

There is currently a requirement for Paramedics to join an audited LimSAR training programme similar to that used by Bristows for many years……

Oh!
 

You must be the crewman whose services were "No Longer Required"……. by DevA……

NavyTorque,

Absolutely, not trying to hide. There are always two sides to an argument and I’m sure, judging by your comment, you have heard from the other side of this one.

As for "an audited LimSAR training program", having been there for two audits, I know exactly how they get through one.

I stand by my assessment and feel foolish for ignoring the multiple warnings given before I made the decision to "contract" with DevA/Heli operations. Luckily for me, they made a great decision to no longer use my services.

Mmmm
 

And thats the crux Moose isn't it - they no longer required your services….. you didn't leave.

DevA provide very competent experienced Crewmen Trainers (Glenn Holmes) to various locations globally…… Glenn has recently returned from Romania to deliver Crewman Training as the named AOC Trainer for SAR Operations for a local company…… can't be that bad eh?

DevA have also delivered training contracts on behalf of Cobham…… although I expect you know more about that too?

We all wish you luck in your future employment and no doubt DevA will provide you an excellent reference should you choose to apply to Bristow or CHC...

Moose Audits
 

Moose - it appears to be everyones else's fault doesn't it….. Now it is not only DevA who don't know what they are doing, Bristows who seem to be taking poorly qualified crewmen but now the experienced AUDITORS aren't doing their job either??

……..As for "an audited LimSAR training program", having been there for two audits, I know exactly how they get through one……..

These guys are experienced, qualified and current auditors - many of whom have many years service in aviation…..

Are you really claiming that you attempted to "cover up" OR pull the wool over their eyes…..

No wonder your services were No Longer Required or should we say PNG?

No bricks allowed in handbags.

NT,

Glenn Holmes is a top bloke and I wish I had been given the opportunity to learn something from him. It's a shame I didn't get the chance.

Please do not attempt to push my comments toward Bristow. I have no experience in how Bristow recruit, operate or run their audits. Knowing some of the guys over there, they appear happy and get the training and support they need. The audits I was involved in were for DevA and in no way did I attempt to cover up anything, which I know was not well received by some.

Since you appear to want to repeat it again. You are correct; my services were "no longer required". But hey, that’s the life of a contractor!

I'm sure you will want the final word so please go ahead. I have put my warning out there and that's all I can do.

AW189 SAR training begins.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...cfdbe9cdd&dl=1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzFm6LKIQAEyifG.jpg

Moose Audits
 

Yep Moose because you make comments out of context….

Bristow's currently employ 5 crewmen in UK SAR who had NO Military SAR Background….. All of these guys are extremely competent crewmen introduced to SAR through DevA LimSAR Global operations. They also employ a number of other non-military SAR Crewmen.

The LimSAR roles for which DevA is looking for Paramedics is in Eastern Europe where they currently use non-paramedic non aircrew (of any experience) down on the wire ……. DevA have introduced structured training of the locals rather than just attaching them to the wire as has been the case for many years…. DevA have offered the first batch of trainees to be English speaking paramedics….. this overcomes the issue of language and introduces an important skill set to the Sar helicopter….. medical qualification.

LimSAR (Unfortunate use of the name) is used more and more by oil companies to provide a "Duty of Care" to crew change helicopter operations - in fact look up the excellent article recentlypublished in RotorHub that outlines the role and the very limited challenge presented to crews in the event of emergencies on LimSAR operations ie if there is poor weather / rough seas - the crew change helicopter isn't flying…….hence no need for SAR!

DevA provides aircrew whose experience is matched to the role required and in addition to 4000 man shifts covered in UK SAR over the past 8 years DevA successfully provided 100% manning (3000 man shifts) to the recent CHC SAR Ireland Transition and currently provides nearly 50% of the aircrew manning to CHC SAR UK (Portland and Lee) and contract S92 SAR Commanders in Ireland.

I am sorry but you have criticised Bristows, you are wrong to do that because they have very successfully taken non-aircrew for direct entry into SAR Crewmen - and pilots for that matter……. you have NO firsthand knowledge of Bristow SAR - I do - you have no commercial flying experience except that opportunity given to you by DevA……. and you were given direction by Glenn Holmes as the DevA company trainer and internal auditor - now we can air his findings on here as well if you wish…..

I don't have to have the last word….. except I cannot accept incorrect or misleading comments just to "Have a Go"

You know who I am and I know who you are so PM me if you have any issues concerning DevA operations or any areas that you feel that they can improve on then contact them…..or PM me?

Regards

Are we finished?

As the lady is in danger of protesting too much, can we get back to the thread?

The starting gun appears to have been fired on the race to the bottom. :sad:

Yes, and I'm sure Glenn loves having his name bandied around here.

Probably as much as CHC & Bristows want their names dragged into this unedifying spectacle.

Shetlander

Incorrect. This is an AgustaWestland protoype aircraft that was in Aberdeen to be displayed at the P&J Energy Ball at the Aberdeen Exhibition and Conference Centre on 4 October. It has now left Aberdeen on return to Italy.

This aircraft is not one of the new machines for Bristow and it was in Aberdeen last year painted in the usual Bristow colours for the same event!

Suggest you get your facts right before posting.

My understanding is that, as TTFD stated, this is the AW prototype. This is the one that is being used as the partial SAR prototype before Bristow's first SAR aircraft is built at Milan.

Perhaps someone with UK SAR mountain flying experience would like to comment on the ground clearance.

Anybody know why Bristow have suddenly stopped engineer recruitment in the UK?

ISTR that one of the sweeteners of the new SAR contract was that the 189 would be built at Yeovil - did they actually mean that some non-SAR 189s might be built there or that all 189s would be built in Italy and perhaps just kitted out in the SAR role in UK?