Ok, so back on topic...

Anyone knows if TUPE will apply? Especially Den Helder since they are only operating on one contract?

More info on TUPE

Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although there is a European framework for TUPE regulations, it is a little different in each country, and I understand the applicability criteria can also change from year-to-year. The link above is too old to be accurate! It also does not appear to mention differences for each EU state.

FWIW, I was under the impression that TUPE applies when one company takes over/buys another company and 'inherits' a pre-existing contract. It doesn't apply if a new contract is awarded.

TUPE applies if the new contract / company utilises equipment and/or facilities from the previous contract. One of the early test cases was a privatisation of IIRC hospital cleaning. The new company used the existing buckets, mops and more capital intensive equipment and due to that TUPE applied.

As a reminder of what I know to be a 'fact', and not a 'rumour', when Bristow was awarded the BP work in Humberside, previously held by CHC, the lawyers all agreed that it was a TUPE transfer. Those who didn't move elsewhere within CHC moved across to Bristow. I think both companies used different S76 variants.

It's a complex area in which to interpret the law, so probably a good money-spinner for the law profession.

In my experience when you think TUPE applies it doesn't, and when you think it doesn't apply it does !

I might be wrong, but isn't TUPE an English law concept (albeit recognising an EU law)? So TUPE and Den Helder might be two mutually incompatible ideas.

From some googling; "Wet Overgang van ondernemingen". Overgang van onderneming - Wikipedia

From a 2006 article: "The rules applicable to a transfer of undertaking follow from the EU Acquired Rights Directive 2001/23. This Directive is implemented in the Dutch Civil Code (Articles 7:662 etc)".

So will EHKD have more/less or equal helicopter movements in 2012-2013 ?

So-so-so-so

Who will fly from 1. July in Den Helder and Norwich on the Shell contract?

Does Dancopter still have their 3 EC-155 in Nigeria? and if so then they cant be both places at the same time.

Any insider info will be appreciated :)

BR

On a separate note, rumours abound of extortianate pay being paid by Dancopter. does anyone know what the true payscale is. I checked their website but it seems to be in the Danish currency and not sure it applies to Uk

If IIRC the contract Shell awarded to Bristow in 2005 was a 7 year contract with several 1 or 2 year extensions that can be automatically activated. This is arrangement is normal in the industry so that the incumbent has to keep operating until their successor is ready.

Even within those extensions we can decrease the number of aircraft with 90-120 days notice. This really does make it easy to shop around for a good deal.:)

These days the smaller operators are proving very competitive and far more willing to operate as directed by the customer's highly skilled advisors.

Oh no, it's SM again! It looks as if the NHV (or wherever it is he works now) PR machine is going in to overdrive once more:D

SM, how is it you don't know the precise terms of the Shell-Bristow contract? I thought you know everything there is to know?!

rewritable
Dancopter payscales/T&Cs appear to have been constructed from taking all the good bits from other operators' scales and leaving out bad bits (imho).
I'm sitting here comparing them alongside the Bristow scales and, even using 9.25 DKR/£, look very niiiiccccce - as Mr Borat would say.
I suppose they work in favour of UK-resident drivers as they are scaled taking into account DK social costs/tax etc.
So not quite clear who is 'extorting' from who.:=

JulieAndrews
 

I think the Shell/NAM contract flown out of Norwich is Shell and in GBP. The Den Helder part is NAM and in EUR.

I don't think Dancopter will be paying the UK pilots the EUR payscale, but a seperate GBP payscale, since the contract is in GBP as well I recon. Would otherwise be very expensive for Dancopter and not in line with the rest of UK benchmark.

Further, which one of the Bristow payscales are you comparing to Dancopter's? The UK one, the Dutch one or the Norwegian one? Quite a big difference in all of them.

I'm pretty sure that in Holland and Norway the Bristow basic payscale is still quite a bit higher then Dancopter's. Not sure about UK, but that only looks good now because of the low GBP. Besides that, Bristow is the highest paying operator in the UK.

Shell scraps helicopter deal over safety fears
 

Well, well, well....

Shell's already changing their minds by the looks of it.

Press and Journal - Article - Shell scraps helicopter deal over safety fears

Makes you wonder what that means for Australia because apparently that part also went to Bond...

Any news on Dancopter signing already with Shell, or is Shell also going to change their mind again on that one? As far as I know they officially haven't signed yet...

Clock is ticking for Shell by now... Only 30 days left to start.... Tik Tok Tik Tok :ugh:

DanCopter has signed the contract... at least that's what applicants get told if they ask :8

RP

Riggin Pin
 

Ok, finally things are clear then! Good for Dancopter.

Are those the applicants from whom the names are all published on a list and send around by email for everyone to read? :ugh::bored: Not very discrete if you ask me:=, especially for those who are still employed by their current employer :*. Is there some sort of strategy behind that? :confused: Oh well, good luck to everyone who's applying anyway! :ok:

Cheers!

SNI
is that the distribution list of other successful applicants so boys n girls can get in touch to sort out lifts/accomodation etc? Don't think list was sent to those that failed, or their HR departments but ready to be corrected!
Didn't see your name on the list.....

Julie Andrews
 

That's a list of 30 people that have to be tested in June. And if the list is intended like you say, how come so many of them on that list are pissed that their name is in the open?
Small effort to only just put the name in there of the other candidate you are doing the testing with.... Not?

Check your facts.

Sensitive for some healthy fact based criticism are we? Don't be on pprune then!

If you are about to lose your job what is the problem with people knowing that you applying for another one?

But are they losing their jobs? Or is there still a chance of staying with the company?

Just spoke to a couple of BHL SNS guys and the company is not telling them anything about their immediate future.

People management never was a BHL strong point but with a month to go and no info for the affected staff at all, this is ridiculous even for their low standards. :yuk:

It would be strange to lose any pilots seeing as Bristow are currently recruiting elsewhere in the UK:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/353...ml#post7221448

It is disappointing to hear that BALPA adopting an anti-European protectionist attitude.

What do you expect to see at Norwich?

Hangar space is available in the white elephant they previously used when operating for shell, so is the passenger handling facilities. I wouldn't expect to see the helicopters until a few days before the button is pushed.

loadsa time yet.

I suppose that's the beauty of the helicopter - one can drop in - almost like a 'helicopter' when current facilities are purpose-built for offshore passenger operations and mature helicopter routing procedures and ATC MOUs exist?
But like every other pilot - warm feeling will only exist when flying first departure for the field - or would that be the beef curry?

Is rumour true as told yesterday in meeting in North Denes Dancopter had AOC turned down by CAA:confused:

SNI - if you've seen the list then are you going to be based in NWI or DHR? Agree that it would not have taken much effort - but just can't see that there is a problem as those on the list are leaving their current employer.......
if you've seen the list - or been told by the un-diplomatic distribution list, then the pilot who showed you obviously wanted you to know that they were leaving - hence my point.

Swap shop. The aircraft are not in Nigeria. The Vikings will be invading East Anglia very soon and all they need is a hangar and an office.

And a sense of humour...... I wonder how long their new task masters will carry them?

What is wrong with the Danish AOC?

NHV use a Belgian AOC out of Norwich. This IS EASA land .

Unless shell specify a UK AOC of course...

Can't imagine that for a moment....

No - not much at all. Dancopter are not Bristow, and the 155's are still not in Nigeria Mr Doom and Gloom.

What is wrong with the Danish AOC?
 

Nothing, as long as the contract is completely held & controlled in Denmark and all of the maintenance is done there.

And the guy who thinks three weeks is enough time to set up a complete operation for Shell has obviously yet to recieve a call from their "change management" police! Good luck with that one.

What makes you think they only had 3 weeks?

And as Epiphany mentioned DC is not Bristow... DanCopter has the ability to respond quickly, unlike Bristow and the likes....

RP

Why would the maintenance need to be done there? There's no direct need for the Part-M/Part-145 organisation to even be related to the JAR OPS-3 operator - although many are combined. Lufthansa do base maintenance in the Philippines, so I'm sure Denmark to the UK should be acceptable:ok:

Swapshop - All this negativity!

The job is the same as is it was 40 years ago - a helicopter transporting people to a platform as safely as possible.

Dancopter are fully capable of doing that with a good safety record.

Of course, there are more hoops to jump though nowadays, which benefit us all, but instead of looking at them as 'showstoppers', I'm sure Dancopter are looking at them as challenges, and are liaising with the client.

I wish Dancopter all the best. They seem to have a 'can do' attitude.

They have well trained crew and engineers who seem to be paid in line with the better paid operators in the industry, and most are on an equal time roster.

They're using a modern airframe and have a team who are willing to flex to better the company for whom they work. (Something I know doesn't happen with some of the established operators.)

They seem to have minimal corporate bulls@£t, and the accountants don't outnumber the 'coalface workers.'

So in short:

Well paid crew and engineers.
Good roster.
Flexible, positive staff.
Good safety record.
Modern Airframe.
Small overheads - The accountants don't outnumber the 'coal face' workers.

Doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

Swapshop - time to take a close look at the company you are working for just now.

Is that as in "can do" fly in weather others would decline?
Is that as in "can do" carry that extra pax even though we are bit over weight?
Is that as in "can do" depart in this aircraft even though there is some tech problem not covered by the MEL?

or what?

Well...
 

...come the 1st July we will see wont we. I understand there may not be a plan B, so no pressure.

Helicomparator,

No. "Can do' as in working together as a team to get the job done efficiently and safely.

Bristow - at least EBU - has an excellent training organisation and very professional pilots and enginerrs but I am afraid that years of poor management, has led to an erosion of trust and the teamwork concept has disappeared to be replaced by an 'us and them' mentality. This also applies to the working relationship between pilots and engineers and affects an individuals attitude to the job and their willingness to be flexible.

Dabcopter are not perfect and I would imagine that the recent rapid growth has caused problems but they have an attitude that Bristow used to have many years ago and this is why the employees are flexible and are willing to help management get the job done. When you combine this attitude with an equally good training department, an emphasis on safety and good relationships and open communication between management, customers and passengers it works very well.

Losing large contracts to smaller operators cannot be pleasant and as someone who has possibly worked exclusively for Bristow it is natural for you to assume that the smaller operator is somehow inferior and therefore must be less professional - as is shown by the negative comments here from Bristow employees.

You are very wrong.