Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 11185171)
Insert your own punchline... :ok:
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...147569.article |
Plus, an additional feature that few may have considered, is how they will make a fine gate guard sometime in the future as the composite airframe will never deteriorate!
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Originally Posted by AAKEE
(Post 11184779)
By ”tall” you mean high cabin?
If so, the high cabin is the Swedish NH90. Only Sweden did get the high cabin. The Norwegians have the standard ”low” cabin. I'm surprised the Dutch didn't buy the high cabin version!! |
Sixth Spanish NH90 delivered
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So that new Spanish one is going straight to the shed then?:)
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11188187)
So that new Spanish one is going straight to the shed then?:)
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Just heard the Australian MRH fleet is grounded again , MGB mount crack , this thing just goes from strength to strength :ugh:
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk9
(Post 11201134)
Just heard the Australian MRH fleet is grounded again , MGB mount crack , this thing just goes from strength to strength :ugh:
To read that there was only 11% of the Australian Blackhawk fleet serviceable in 1995 is sadly, sobering. (10 years after they entered service). Stabilator issues on Mike models causing fatal accidents. Multiple engine failures. here are some of the links. Sobering reading. Only 5 mins worth of googling. https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo...-05-09/0032%22https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...87fb52f0d50cdf https://verticalmag.com/news/black-h...er-safety/?amp https://www.military.com/daily-news/...diers.html/amp https://taskandpurpose.com/military-...k-crashes/?amp https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...html?_amp=true https://www.timesofisrael.com/air-fo...functions/amp/ |
Originally Posted by Doors Off
(Post 11201176)
Oh my, I just googled Blackhawk groundings, in order to see how it compares. I don’t think it will be the Panacea that is expected. Even the US Army Blackhawk fleet, as recently last year, is suffering poor spares, logistical support, maintenance support and very low flying rates and subsequent morale among it’s crews.
To read that there was only 11% of the Australian Blackhawk fleet serviceable in 1995 is sadly, sobering. (10 years after they entered service). Stabilator issues on Mike models causing fatal accidents. Multiple engine failures. here are some of the links. Sobering reading. Only 5 mins worth of googling. https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo...-05-09/0032%22https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...87fb52f0d50cdf https://verticalmag.com/news/black-h...er-safety/?amp https://www.military.com/daily-news/...diers.html/amp https://taskandpurpose.com/military-...k-crashes/?amp https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...html?_amp=true https://www.timesofisrael.com/air-fo...functions/amp/ |
Numbers Tell a Different Story
Since 1979 more than 6000 variants of the UH-60/SH-60/MH-60 and S-70s have entered service around the world. Even Sweden procured H-60s after selecting the NH-90 under the NSHP program. By comparison NH Industries have delivered only 500 aircraft since 2007.
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Originally Posted by Jack Carson
(Post 11201852)
Since 1979 more than 6000 variants of the UH-60/SH-60/MH-60 and S-70s have entered service around the world. Even Sweden procured H-60s after selecting the NH-90 under the NSHP program. By comparison NH Industries have delivered only 500 aircraft since 2007.
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Originally Posted by Doors Off
(Post 11201176)
Stabilator issues on Mike models causing fatal accidents.
Did someone change the procedures in the flight manual for that? I'll see if I can get ahold of John Dixson to explain some of the nuances there. Multiple engine failures. I'll take a look at the links, thanks. Perhaps with the 1979 - 2022 maturity of the Blackhawk family, you would expect their issues would be less and have basically disappeared? I hope that you are aware that pilots change, and that there is turnover? ;) We have yet to perfect the Vulcan mind meld such that every thing I learned before I hung up my flight suit is absorbed by the next nugget to strap into a helicopter. In other news, most of the A's have been converted to L's or have left US Army service, and most of the L's are undergoing mods to become the new V model (glass cockpit, like the M, as I understand it) and it looks like the Air Force got some HH-60W recently as the HH-60Gs, that have served long and well, slowly get put out to pasture. Why I feel that the T-700 has gotten progressively better over the years. About 30 years ago our Seahawks had some real troubles with uncommanded engine wind downs (usually roll backs, but on a few occasions the engines shut down) which curtailed some of our training until that rather complex set of problems were solved one at a time. (Aircraft to Engine interface was a root issue: Marconi, Sikorsky, and GE all took turns pointing fingers at each other). Two of the problems that I remember were floating grounds, bad diodes, and sometimes an HMU seal that would harden and fail (which IIRC was resolved at AIMD with a seal made by a different vendor, but I am really reaching here in terms of memory). Last time I talked to my Seahawk brethren (a bit before the SH-60B was sundowned in San Diego) I asked about that family of issues and it hadn't cropped up in years. I still got some gnashing of teeth about main rotor dampers, viscous damper bearings, and HUMS from the operators For Jack Carson: well howdy, glad to see that you are still among the quick! :ok: As to the NH-90: I am sad to see it go from a neat idea (ah, the halcyon days of the 1990's) to 'having a few problems along the way' but if there are 500 of them up and flying, still, I'd say it's a successful model that, like any helicopter, has its quirks. |
As to the NH-90: I am sad to see it go from a neat idea (ah, the halcyon days of the 1990's) to 'having a few problems along the way' but if there are 500 of them up and flying, still, I'd say it's a successful model that, like any helicopter, has its quirks. |
Originally Posted by Jack Carson
(Post 11201852)
Since 1979 more than 6000 variants of the UH-60/SH-60/MH-60 and S-70s have entered service around the world. Even Sweden procured H-60s after selecting the NH-90 under the NSHP program. By comparison NH Industries have delivered only 500 aircraft since 2007.
1) NH90 is a little more complex then S-70/H-60 airframe as the latter started from early 70s design manufacture evolving into 21st century. Also was the marketing strategy aimed at en masse production for the NH90? 2) It’s not a comparison but an observation: the AW139 production after 18 years (just over 2 decades if you count concept / R&D) reached 1000 airframes in sept 2019 with the 1000th airframe handed over to the Italian Guardia di Finanze (GdF). I know because I was invited to the event at Verigiate. Thats a Civil helo (and some mil customers with AW139M) Amd just looking at numbers realistically could we ever produce en masse something like 100000 UH-1 in todays modern Hugh tech world? I believe was record number of Hueys produced making it biggest number since WW2)? Small civilian airframes like Robinson R22/44/66 then yes. 3) Speaking of Hueys am led to believe that some issues with the German NH90 were the logistics and support framework which had not evolve fRom the UH-1D (which NH90 primarily replaced in Bundeswehr) . In short the mindset was still there. The Oz problem is similar … cheers |
By Dominic Perry 23 May 2022 |
About the upgrade program: "She remains hopeful this can be reduced to 12 months, “but we are not there yet”", says Tarnaud Laude. Not too impressive with a target of 12 months upgrade program for helicopters that for many has just come of the production line. And lifetime extended to 50 years "until at least 2050" is another big WOW. So aircraft delivered in 2022 will only have 28 years+ life until the program stops? And have to spend at least one year right of the bat in an upgrade program. An upgrade program that only brings new gizzmo to the aircraft and does nothing to improve on operational readiness. New gizzmos that need more repairs. And the final blow: "availability rates average 40%, he says, with the manufacturer aiming to reach at least 50% by 2023, a level that “should be possible”, Christoph Zammert says." Is 50% availability the stretch target? It should be 90+% shouldn't it. All aircraft typically follow the bath tub curve with high maintenance burden in the early life which then comes down during the mature phase and then skyrocket at the end of the product life. The NH90 is in the mature phase - it has been around close to 20 years. Toothing issues should have been resolved since long. And it took NHI only 20 years to figure out they should have spares on the shelve for their customers, contrary to the earlier assumption they will only manufacture parts to order. That philosophy would not fly well in the commercial world, and apparently not in the military world either. A production ramp up of more spares for storage will cause additional strain on supply chain, further drive cost, and further reduce availability while the stores are being filled up which will take years. This would only represent another revolution on the pain screw for the program. It seems they have a lot of fun at the Christmas parties at NH Industries coming up with new programs that includes a lot of fuzz words and promises but it seems customers now are rightfully fed up.
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Sell the aircraft for a 'lowish' headline price to get the contract and then screw the customer with expensive parts and upgrades options when you have them over a barrel of poor availability.
Seems a common theme amongst manufacturers - not just in aviation - and never seems to engender customer loyalty, something that is supposed to be key to longevity of a company. |
It was announced this morning that the Norwegian government has decided to return their 14 aircraft (13 delivered) and ask for their money back.
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Norway to return NH Industries helicopters, seek repaymentReuters1 minute read OSLO, June 10 (Reuters) - Norway will return the NH90 military helicopters it ordered from France's NH Industries because they are either unreliable or were delivered late, the defence minister and the head of the military said on Friday. The government said it would also seek repayment of 5 billion crowns ($523 million) plus interest other costs from NH Industries, which is owned by Airbus Helicopters (AIR.PA), Italy's Leonardo (LDOF.MI) and Fokker Aerostructuresof the Netherlands. NH Industries was not immediately available for comment. No matter how many hours our technicians work, and how many parts we order, it will never make the NH90 capable of meeting the requirements of the Norwegian Armed Forces," Defence Minister Bjoern Arild Gram told a news conference. The original contract for 14 helicopters was signed in 2001 but Norway has received only eight, the ministry said. "We have a helicopter that doesn't work the way it's supposed to," said General Eirik Kristoffersen, the head of Norway's armed forces. ($1 = 9.5572 Norwegian crowns) Reporting by Gwladys Fouche; editing by Terje Solsvik and Jason Neely https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...es-2022-06-10/ |
A great article here from Vertical, with the official NH Industries response!
https://verticalmag.com/news/norway-cancels-nh90/ Norway terminates NH90 contractBY GLENN SANDS | JUNE 10, 2022Estimated reading time 6 minutes, 7 seconds.Norway has ended its NH90 helicopter contract, stating the contractor’s inability to find replacement components for critical systems on the helicopter. This included some components for the NH90’s anti-submarine warfare capability. Norway will now return all the helicopters and demand a full refund. In a press release from Norway’s Ministry of Defence, Mr Bjørn Arild Gram stated: “Regrettably we have reached the conclusion that no matter how many hours our technicians work, and how many parts we order, it will never make the NH90 capable of meeting the requirements of the Norwegian Armed Forces. Based on a joint recommendation by the Armed Forces and associated departments and agencies, the Norwegian Government has therefore decided to end the introduction of the NH90 and has authorized the Norwegian Defence Material Agency to terminate the contract.” Following the statement, the Norwegian Defence Material Agency informed the manufacturer of the NH90, NATO Helicopters Industries (NHI), that it was terminating the entire contract. The Agency will begin preparation to return the helicopters along with any spares and equipment received. Additionally, the Agency is requesting a refund from NHI, which will include an estimated five billion kroner it has paid under the contract, along with any interest and other expenses. Director-General of the Norwegian Defence Material Agency, Gro Jære said: “We have made repeated attempts at resolving the problems related to the NH90 in cooperation with NHI, but after more than 20 years after the contract was signed, we still don’t have helicopters capable of performing the missions for which they were bought, and without NHI being able to present us with any real solutions.” https://i0.wp.com/assets.verticalmag...40%2C427&ssl=1Norway has announced the termination of its contract for the NH90. Photo Mats Grimsæth, Norwegian Armed ForcesNorway’s acquisition of the NH90 began in 2001, with 14 helicopters for the Coast Guard and anti-submarine warfare duties with the expectation that all would be in service by late 2008. Currently, prior to the termination, only eight have been delivered in full operational configuration. The fleet was expected to fly 3,900 flight hours per year, but recently this was averaging around 700 hours. It was in February 2022 that the Norwegian Ministry of Defence asked the Armed Forces in cooperation with the Norwegian Defence Material Agency and the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment, to conduct a full review of Norway’s maritime helicopter capabilities. The review revealed that even with significant additional financial investments, it would not be able to bring the performance and availability of the NH90 to the level that would meet Norway’s operational requirements. Norwegian Chief of Defence, General Eirik Kristoffersen said: “This is the right decision for the NH90 and our maritime helicopter capability, and in line with our recommendation.“I have been impressed by the efforts made by our organization and everyone who has worked so hard to make the NH90 deliver. This has not been a question of a lack of effort, creativity, and skill, but quite simply that we have received a helicopter that has not been able to deliver. Also, even though we are now moving on from the NH90, we still need the support of those who have been working on the helicopter. My priority now is therefore to take care of everyone who has worked on the NH90.” Following the termination of the contract, Norwegian NH90 flight operations stopped, and any planned future missions have been cancelled.Next for the Norwegian Ministry of Defence is to begin the selection process again, for an alternative maritime helicopter. Bjørn Arild Gram stated: “Norway continues to have a requirement for maritime helicopters, and it is, therefore, essential that we quickly begin preparations to fill the capability gap left by the NH90. We will consider several alternative approaches to meeting our operational requirements.” Following the announcement, a statement from NHIndustries said: “We are extremely disappointed by the decision taken by the Norwegian Ministry of Defence and refute the allegations being made against the NH90 as well as the Company. NHIdustries was not offered the possibility to discuss the latest proposal made to improve the availability of the NH90 in Norway and to address the specific Norwegian requirements. “NHIdustries and its Partners have been absolutely committed to addressing the concerns expressed and have brought the appropriate and tailored solutions to the table to meet the specific and unique Norwegian requirements. With 13 helicopters delivered out of 14, and the last example ready for acceptance, we were close to finalizing the main scope of the initial contract. NHIdustries considers this termination to be groundless.” 500 Trillium Dr., Unit 23, Kitchener, ON N2R 1E5 | Phone: 519-748-1591 | Toll-Free: 1-866-834-1114 | Fax: 519-748-2537 Vertical and Vertical Valor are part of MHM Publishing Inc. © All Rights Reserved 2022 | Terms of Use | Privacy Polic |
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