MD - All Not Good in Mesa
 

Heard from a little birdie that on Friday all contract and about 30 production staff were laid off.

Also heard that she who can do no wrong is now in talks with Boeing about them buying back the company. :ok::ok:

I really hope that happens as they would know how to put that company back to how it was in the old days when it actually meant something to own a Hughes/MD product.

Ned

Tilton may not be to everyone's taste, but make no mistake, she saved MD Helicopters, and she did it to save US jobs and a US brand.

And in doing so, she's worked damned hard to reinstate proper customer support and quality control.

Taking pleasure in MD Helicopters' misfortunes smacks of something small minded and quite unpleasant, IMHO.

As to 'the good old days', did you own a 500 back in 1999, which was the last time that MD was owned by Boeing?

And if Boeing were so blooming committed to the civil helicopter business, why did they plan to sell it to Bell from the very moment that they merged with McDD?

What a load of crap, you obviously believe all her PR.

- Bull$hit she wouldnt know customer support if it bit her in the ass, ask any MD operator. And quality control, now thats a joke. Maybe ask Simon Oliphant Hope why his machine had to go back to the factory for over 80 defects with it recently. And maybe have a chat to Phoenix Police about the state of their last delivery.

And for your info I have been one of MD strongest supporters over the years and in fact we were the first ones to support Tiltons plans to "save" MD, but there is only so much crap you can listen to from the halls of Mesa. You believe all her press releases if you want, I know she does, and we will listen to the feedback from the operators.

Ned

Jacko I do have to say that Ned has been one of the strongest MD supporters and was very supportive of Ms Tilton when she took over MD.

Mark

Jackonicko,

Couple of other bits of info for you.

wrong - it may have been based in the US of A, but it was owned by Joop who happened to be a Dutchman living in the Netherlands.

- actually its sad to see the company in stress but its nice to see the crap Tilton has spouted come back to bite her. All this talk about "I will be there til the end" is laughable, especially when she is now in talks to sell it to Boeing.

Actually Boeing never wanted the civil side of it and they said so at the start so why be surprised that they want to sell it off. Do they want the civil side now, my guess is NO, but they want it because of the potential for the unmanned little birds that the Army wants. This way they have control over when they get the aircraft they need if they win the contract, which I am sure they will.

Boeing is not a stupid company and they will keep the civil side going if there are orders for the products, if there isnt then they will probably shut it down or sell it off and I was even corresponding with one individual who could be a possible buyer today so there is more than just Boeing interested.

Ned

There is no quality control at MD. The machine with 80 defects was a joke, I have pix if anyone is interested !
One of my current customers who has a new machine ( not yet flown it, although it has been in UK for a couple of months ), well it is siting in a hanger as it cant be flown in Europe. The reason no one bothered to certify the Meeker door pins that are now fitted as standard. MD only had a year to sort this out, could they be bothered - no. Fuchs in Switzerland have the same problem with their new machine. Perhaps you could argue that it was Meekers problem, but MD are fitting the pins. Now when you look at the oil cooler assy fitted to the newmachine ( lifed items bearings and belt) we found the following.
The assy had 44.2 hours on it when fitted and had been on 7 different machines. Makes you wonder what else gets missed, to be fair MD said they had got this wrong:uhoh:and sent ovcer new bits
The upshot of these 2 machines have been 3 of my customers voting with their feet and buying an EC120 a 350 and the 3rd a44 in the past 9 months.

Now dont get me wrong they are great helicopters and I had hoped that Tilton woud have put some sensible management in. Obviously not which is a shame but there we go.
Rant over I have got to go and invoice my customer for the use of one of my 500's as his new one cant be flown, suppose there is a silver lining to every cloud !!!

"Verily and I saith unto you I AM the Saviour of the American Helicopter Industry ,even though I strutteth in high heels and pronounceth that all who argue are heathens to be cast into my cauldron.
Yeah the great Bankers shall be cast from my bosom and smothered ,along with the management and the US government that have let me..and the great American worker..down again.
Yet we SHALL arise from the ashes ,even as those who despise us cackle and laugh with hands over mouths ,for I am the great El Tee and all shall tremble before me ..even as does my bosom when I stand before thee.
And they who will not,shall I smite with all my force ..or at least the nearest tail rotor blade I can lay hands on ."

heli1 I know it is poetry week on the BBC this week but I think you are taking it too seriously !!!

While the plural of anecdote is not data, we took delivery of a 530F last August, and it has been squawk free since we left Mesa. We had a few small issues coming out of completion in Texas, that we noted on the flight to AZ, and the factory folks resolved those before we left for Alaska. All in all, a great delivery experience.

md troubles
 

hughes/ md /boeing etc great machines ive owned many but all the past owners have been crap at spares back up etc and that includes hughes great fun though when there flying helispeed iii

Boeing currently has the rights to produce Little Birds for military use. This right was part of the settlement agreement between MD and Boeing from the carry back financing. Boeing does not need MD to use the intellectual property.

When MD was in trouble last time, the expectation was that it would run through a bankruptcy to clean up the balance sheet and supplier relationships. Out of this bankruptcy would be a 363 sale with many bidders to include Carlyle group, Sikorsky and several others. Ms. Tilton, chose to skip the bankruptcy and took on the entire financial responsibility most likely to mitigate the risk of not getting the assets in a Bankruptcy auction. Give her credit for taking the gamble, but it would appear that after stuffing a lot of money into the operations, it has not been able to flourish enough to support the capital structure.

Although they have delivered a few ships, it is unlikely that the market will continue to support pricing of 1.585 million for F models and 1.250 million for E models. I sold mine in April 2008 and hope to buy back at much lower prices.

Did your ship go down to Pima County SD?
Mark

I have always been a fan of the 500 series, great machines. I dont care who does it, but would not like to see them go away. Not so much of a fan of the ones with big dick on the back end. Some love those, some dont. I do remember one good friend who breathed a sigh of relief when he went with Boeing rather than hanging on to the dead horse.

P.S. If you get into it with Ned, be prepared, hes not going to sugarcoat his opinions.........ha ha

As to George in Homer. I am envious of two things.
1. Homer
2. 530(F)

LT is in the private equity business. Like all of the operators in that business, her modus operandi is to turn around a company in a 2-5 year timescale and sell it on at a profit. PE companies do not care if they make enemies along the way. To suggest LT is saving US jobs is a joke when we know she instigated the subcontracting of much work to Mexico - to reduce costs, increase profit, and ultimately boost company value ready for onward sale.

diethelm
This is what we have received recently......:cool:

"price for the MD Explorer for 2010, including IFR, airco, dual controls, rotor brake, Engine inlet filters, aux fuel tank, is US$6,142,500."
"price for 2010, 500E with C20R, including the Garmin avionic suite is US$1,787,000."

All the MD supporters who help block Bell buying the product, have you noted Bell is still number one in product support.

You made the bed....

The Sultan:D

Nothing wrong with Bell, I grew up in them. This is about MD and the drain it has been heading down for so long........

Lets see...The Sultan?? Arlington, Tx... Can we guess you have a Dog in this Hunt? :ok:

Mr. Friskel:

Yes

How are they liking it? It has been nearly a year now right? It was a good choice for them for sure.

to all, we are working hard on getting our door kit approved by easa. it has been a struggle as we have to work backwards on an old stc. hence the data package has to be re-written to suit easa. re-working an old 1999 era existing stc is more difficult than making a new one, something we have never had to do.
fortunately we have had great support on both sides of the pond from faa and easa, but as anyone who has an faa or easa stc and submits for recognition by another aviation authority, its a challenge
thanks
cal

southerncanuck

You may be working hard on the door kit, but it doesnt take the brains of an archbishop to work out that you need to get it certified before selling into EASA land !!!!!!! Begs the question what else gets missed. The particular machine with this problem and the one with over 80 skin faults has caused 3 customers to my knowledge to buy/ order other manufactures machines. How do they get out the factory, in fact a better question would be how does it get into the factory ?
Dont get me wrong I love the product but these incidents don t help and gives all your detractors ammunition.

Hughes500 - I know Cal, he is a good guy, and he has his own company, he doesnt work for MD. He is a supplier to them, so bottom line the issue in question is with the factory and MD, not with Cal. If MD made the decision to deliver machines to Europe without the door hinges being EASA approved then thats their fault.

Ned

I worked with Cal and he always completes. That being said I am not sure why MD as the Type certificate holder would need STC approval . To the best of my knowledge all Eurocopter optional equipment kits ( the ones that are covered by SB's and EC Flight Manual Suplements )are approved under the TC not by STC . You will not see an STC for the Eurocopter cargo sling and swing for example.

to all, we deliver the kits, as an stc to md, as we would to any customer and have for years. it was our understanding that md would add to the tc. as we know, it was not and md asked us to get our stc recognized asap. normally that procedure is not a major undertaking, we hold various easa stc's, that were faa stc's, recognized by easa.
that said the door kit stc was a much older format, that easa would not accept "as is". therefore we have had to go back revise the stc, re submit to the faa, who then fwds the revision on to easa for review, who then asks for corrections, then we re submit the corrections on yet another revision, then back to faa, then on to easa. you get the idea and this is exactly where we are today, working fast as possible on another and hopefully the final revision.
cal

Given how good our delivery experience was with a 530F last August, I would be interested in some detail about the 80 defects in this new helicopter. Who completed the ship, who accepted the helicopter, when were the faults discovered, and what is MD doing to resolve these issues?

I would really like to hear that too.
Thanks

The photos would make you cry.:{
How the hull got out of the build shop is beyond me, how it got fitted out is beyond belief, then painted & shipped where were the QA people at every stage of production, there was a lack of oversight that beggared belief, (P45 forms, or US equivalent for all including department heads involved)
I would like to know if Ms T had heard, been told about this problem & if so what she did.
I can say we E mailed her personally about a problem & there was an immediate response to our query, which until then had not been addressed with any seriousness.

But dont expect a reply to anything for the next week, seems like for the next seven days the plant is all closed down and staff have been told to take time off without pay. :ok::ok:

Spoke to a couple of folks there today and bit pissed off having to use up their holiday allotments for this "forced" week off. :D:D

Can you provide more detail as to exactly what the 80 faults were? Who completed the helicopter? Who accepted the helicopter? When were the squawks noted?

southercanuck you have my sincere apologies, I had quite wrongly assumed that you were speaking on behalf of MD. I hope i caused no offence.:O

Hughes 500 did you get email ok

hughes500, no offence taken. we feel your pain. its a drain on everyone, especially those waiting for aircraft to be "signed off" in europe and put into service.
its frustrating for us, md and the faa as well, going back to square 1 on an already approved product.
that said, everyone at faa, easa and md is 100% supportive. most important, when the revisions hit the desk of both faa and easa, the turn times are 1-2 days, cannot complain with that type of respone, in any industry.
currently we are working through some revisions now, then on to faa, who forwards it on to easa.
cal

Cal I only wish that TC were as responsive in Canada.

widgeon, in all fairness to TC, once again, we have been fortunate, all our projects have been accepted / recognized in short order.
if i had one complaint with any process it would be to streamline the PSCP for new stc applications. it works in theory, but the execution is slow.

I too have written to Ms. Tilton. The response was immediate and the resolution satisfactory.

To those that might have some issues, here are some emails to help you get it into the right hands - working from the top down :ok:

Lynn Tilton - [email protected]

Craig Kitchen (Chief Operating Officer) [email protected]

Tim Ruddick (Head of Customer Support) [email protected]

Was going to put the email address of their Quality Control person but didnt think that would be any point :E:E

Hope these help.

Ned,

"crap" and "Bull$hit", eh?

Is that what passes for witty repartee among your circle, Ned?

Or is that an example of 'quality journalism'?

It's not a matter of 'believing press releases', it's one of discerning fundamental, underlying truth, rather than resorting to the easy option of dim-witted and unoriginal journalistic cynicism.

And I speak as a dim-witted journalist, so I'm aware of the temptation.

While the Tilton 'schtick' is quite strong (and distracting), I do believe that underlying it is the fact that she is entirely and genuinely sincere about American brands and American jobs. I think that her wider history demonstrates that. If she wasn't serious, MDH would have been easy enough to asset strip and move on from.

And despite the brief interval during which MDH was Dutch-owned, it is a quintessentially and deliberately American brand.

While airframe production has gone 'south of the border' moving it has saved the company - including hundreds of jobs. (And exporting basic airframe construction to low labour cost countries is hardly anything new in the helicopter industry, as Sikorsky and AgustaWestland have shown).

No-one would claim that MD Helicopters has not had its problems with both quality control and customer support (nor even that the company does not still have a long and difficult road to travel), but to deny that Tilton has made it a real priority to address these areas is both fundamentally unfair and inaccurate.

"She's worked damned hard to reinstate proper customer support and quality control..." as I said, and she is on the road towards achieving it.

Even on this thread, there's some indication that things are changing, and that things are on an upward trajectory - albeit a shallow one.

In my view, most of Tilton's critics are guilty of small-minded resentment, and display an old fashioned envy of successful women.

Tilton is twice the man than most of her detractors are, and has bigger balls than they'll ever have. And she's done more for the US working man than any blasted journalist.

Why are so many journos only really happy when they're tearing something down, I wonder? Envy of those who actually 'do' among those who merely prattle?

Perhaps you should stick to taking beautiful pictures, Ned

Nice one, Jacko :ok:

Whatever you say Jackonicko, :D:D

I will base my opinions on what I know from behind the scenes and what I hear from those who operate the product.

You continue to wave the flag for Lynn Tilton.

:ok:

:D

nice approach