MD Explorer
 

We are in the early stages of looking for a replacement for our Police twin squirrel.
We can get good and bad feedback on the 135 from users, but asking questions about the 902 brings blank looks and a change of subject from anyone involved with it.

Would anyone care to comment?? :)

MightyGem :

Wiltshire Police have a 902 which is shared use between themselves and the Ambulance service. It flies from Police HQ in Devizes, and I think it's operated by PAS out of Staverton - sorry Gloucester. Perhaps worth speaking to them to see what they think.

Mighty Gem:

West Midlands ASU have just taken delivery of a 902 and I'm sure they would oblige if you have any queries. As to comparisons the 902 can give you Helipad performance at MAUW up to +26 deg C which I know the 135 can't.

The EC135 is an excellent police machine and is very similar in performance to the Mk9 Lynx - with which I suspect you are well acquainted! - AUM is never a problem and the only draw backs that are worthy of note are; the 17 hour service bulletins on the drive shaft which should be resolved this summer, the high skid which can (and does) get in the way of the camera and the poorly positioned SX5 which, again, is limited on occasion by the high skid position. These limitations can be easily overcome by the pilot.

I have just remembered the biggest drawback of all, the EC135 is restricted to 1000 ft cloudbase at night due to a lack of AP and despite what MACS say about this CAA regulation, it’s going to be a long time before it is resolved.

I have not flown the 902 but from looking inside I can tell you that its looks mighty chummy!!

Mighty Gem,

A new helicopter will look nice outside your new portacabins!!!! Thought you lot were short of money or are you keeping up with the Joneses.

You already know who and where I am. We have just put the names in the hat to choose between the two above helicopters. The UEO and most of the staff here are well versed in the facts, lies and counter-lies regarding the 135/902. Get your UEO to speak with our UEO and I'm sure he will discuss the boxes and boxes of information he has gathered researching the topic.

Be aware that when £2-3 million is on offer peoples ability to give a clear, concise answer to tricky answers can be affected. :rolleyes:

Best of luck. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by Zeusman (edited 12 February 2000).]

One unit flying one of these two types has had two replacement main gearboxes so far (luckily for them inside the warranty period). Unlucky?

Zeusman
I thought you were buying a fixed wing not a new chopper - why the change of heart (and wings)?

I have flown both and from a piots point of view I liked the MD902, lots of power and not too sensitive to wind direction.

From an operator's point of view though I would go for the 135 as it will probably have better support from Eurocopter (at least in Europe) Residual values should be better as well. I really hope the 902 does well as it is a great idea but it is going to be a brave commercial operator who buys a fleet of them.

I also flew the EC 155 recently and it is an impressive machine from a pilots viewpoint. It should give the 76C+ some stiff competition but it needs a higher TOGW to really compete in the offshore market.

What has happened to the problem of cracking on th e135 that caused the North Wales one to place a concrete weight in the bay at the back of the fuselage?

I thought North Wales usually put a local scroat in the aircraft while they went for a brew!

CAA's General Aviaton Occurrence list 1.11.99 - 17.1 00 reports a VSI and a laser beam problem with the EC135.

The MD900 has pitch link problems - would you trust a pilot to maintain your helicopter?

It also reports the MD900 having a double salko and triple toe-loop characteristic - worrying.

The Romney Marsh A109 Power looks interesting - or even more worrying.

ANOrak :

Do you have the URL for the CAA occurence reports ?

hydraulicpalmtree (hope the spelling's right I find it difficult to spell aviatoin).

Sorry no URL but telex: 878753

Tel: 01293 573220

[This message has been edited by ANOrak (edited 22 February 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Zeusman (edited 02 March 2000).]

Many thanks for all your replies. Zeusman, your bit about extended range tanks reminds me of when we fitted them to a Mk 7 lynx in Detmold as a trial. There it was sat in the hanger with both extra tanks fitted and as much fuel as could be poured in. It was only then that someone had a thought, did some sums and found it was over MAUM!! Ah Detmold... those were the days :)

Halycon days indeed. Wasn't that particular Mk7 called the flying bomb?

Mighty G, Hadn't you better get yourselves a decent and permenant Gaff to live in before you purchase a new stead? :)

Just to say thanks for all your replies. CL, you don't need a nice garage when you're going to keep the ferrari parked on the drive! ;) ;)

A 10 year old one at that with 2x V23's submitted!!!! :)

MD Explorer
 

MD have issued a press release which states that the following UK operators have ordered Explorers for delivery near the end of 2000 or early 2001.
- Greater Manchester Police
- West Yorkshire Police
- unnamed EMS operator (anyone care to speculate?)
.
Bearing in mind past interest in the subject on this forum, I wonder what decided these units on the 902 as opposed to the 135 or the 109 Power?
.
GMP would also seem to be forcing the end of the NW consortium in its current format, as the current supplier of maintenance and spare aircraft is Eurocopter (wearing McAlpine clothing)....

the smoke looks a good bet

Suckback 6: Who has taken up smoking,the purchasers or the 902s - worrying?!!

The ems operator might be a capital one...

The sale to Virgin HEMS is 100% certain - it was announced by the CP at Brighton recently, The suggestion [true or false] is that there is another sale but this may just be commercial confusion.

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MD902
 

I fly for a EMS company in the US. Within the next year or so we will be replacing some of our aging Bell 222s, mainly due to the rising cost of Bell parts. We are seriously looking at the MD902 as a replacement and would like any comments from those of you flying one now or with recent experience on the type. I myself have some experience with the 900, dating back about four years, and was impressed with it. I'm wondering about the impact of the PW 207 on performance, range, etc. Anyone flying it SPIFR? Thanks in advance.

I hope one of the 902 operators responds to you. We have enough of them flying the beastie now however I,m not sure whether the 207 P&W's are installed yet...might be wrong though. Currently the UK operates about 6 HEMS/POLICE 902's a/c and by all accounts they seem to be producing the goods. No funny business from them that we have heard about.....yet! Try your post again and include the words "HEMS and POLICE" in the heading.. Safe flying


http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/A...if/redstar.gif

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Thermal runaway.

Try contacting Medical Aviation Services as they have operated the Explorer for a couple of years now in both the Police & HEMs roles. Try e-mailing '[email protected]' and hopefully someone will pick up on it and respond.

I have heard that the rotor blades have been suffering from cracks on the leading edges, that the fuel indication is suspect but it flies well on one engine and the ducted fan doesn't like rain.

Is this true or just hearsay?

"trying to listen out again"

All true from earpiece PLUS not cleared for SPIFR in the uk yet - nor in the near future I suspec. MAS talk a good talk but can't ofer the goods as advertised, maybe wait and watch a little longer

West Yorkshire Police (UK) are shortly to take delivery of a 902 with 207 engines as are Greater Manchester Police. Get in touch with Mark Woodward at MAS.
[email protected]

I heard that the HEMS Explorer had an engine flame-out recently. Seems one engine simply ran out of fuel! The Explorer's fuel system leaves something to be desired, it has one tank split down the middle by a baffle. This can result in a fuel imbalance and, as each engine is fed from either side of the baffle ... you can work the rest out for yourselves. In addition it seems that the fuel gauge is pretty inaccurate!
So far the Explorer's problems have been kept fairly well under wraps, I think the lid may be starting to be prised off the can of worms. Good luck all you Explorer pilots.

The 902 is certified and legal SPIFR in the US and JAA countries (any delays in the UK are probably courtesy of the CAA). In its IFR version it is as well, if not better equipped than most of the IFR aircraft operating on the North Sea. I believe that Sussex Air Support Unit are happy with their aircraft which has a full Police and Hems fit,(although it has to be said that they do not operate IFR).
The lack of information about any potential snags with the 902 may be because there are few that cause any of the operators any real concern. The current rotor and wing magazine contains an unbiased report of the 902 which should convince you that it is a capable machine for HEMS work.
Personally speaking, I can't believe that I'm lucky enough to have flown in one!

Gen Info MD902
 

Anyone got any performance data or handling info on the explorer. Pilot comment etc..
;)

If I remember rightly (and correct me if I am wrong) was it not the "Explorer" that had problems with bits of the blades falling off?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Perhaps this thread can bring in some comment some UK MD Explorer operators from the meeting in the Humberside area last week? All UK Explorer operators met face-to-face with MD. Why was this meeting required? :confused: What views were being aired? What was the outcome? Will the Explorer be the better aircraft for it?

A great aircraft, worthy of holding its own with any other new generation helo. HOWEVER, there is an awful lot of secrecy surrounding anything to do with the 902 in operation...why is that? :confused:

I've been flying the Explorer in Police & HEMS ops for 2.5 years and it's a great aircraft. It handles well and has stacks of power even with the 206 engines. It is Helipad capable at MAUW up to +26 deg and sometimes above dependant on QFE. The large boxy cabin is ideal for emergency services ops, giving room to work and great flexibility.
There have been anumber of maintenance problems, some down to PAS disorganisation and some down to the aircraft or more correctly to the spares supply from MDH.
The recent meeting at Humberside of the MD 902 user group was largely to address these problems rather than any gripes with the aircraft itself.
The specific engineering problems were largely inherited by MDH from Boeing who did little to sort them out or promote the aircraft.
The blade delamination has been solved by modded blades although not everyone has a full set of new blades yet. The MGBx oil system has been modded and new gearboxes are shortly to come on line. Notar out of balance problems have been largely solved by balancing the fan regularly pending modified blades.
None of these have caused a major problem other that the length of time that it has sometimes taken for spares to arrive which is a problem that MDH are also trying to solve. We have found that MDH have worked hard to sort out technical problems and provide a mod when required. Although these sometimes take longer to come through than the operators would like this may be a little unrealistic given that MDH was a brand new company 2 years ago and they seem to have inherited a disorganised and undeveloped programme from Boeing and that the MD 902 is only one of their products.

Hope this helps !!!

I can concur with Bear, but the most outstanding features are that there is virtually NO vibration, almost NO noise and more importantly its the first heli in which I can sit up straight and look around with plenty of headroom.
The instrumentation is quite intuitive but quite daunting at first to the analogue brains amongst us.
Its also nice to have plenty of power and a tail rotor (NOTAR) which is more efficient than it needs to be.
Even the seats are comfortable! ;)

Doesn't beat a 135 though :cool:

The 902 gets my vote. A great aircraft that does the job extremely well. Any relatively new aircraft will have it's share of teething problems (Merlin !!!!!)- but at least MD do seem to be trying to resolve them.