Air Ambulances Falling Out?
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Air Ambulances Falling Out?
Article from the Birmingham Post - I hope this does not get out of control as only the patients will lose out in the end!!
Local news
Air ambulance 'breakaway' service Mar 17 2003
By Campbell Docherty, Birmingham Post
A war of words has broken out between the Midlands air ambulance service and a new operator being set up to cover part of the region.
Warwickshire and Northamptonshire National Air Ambulance (WNNAA) has targeted a July launch and is being backed by the Warwickshire Ambulance Service.
Effectively, it will be breaking away from County Air Ambulance, which currently operates three helicopters across the Midlands and enjoys the support of the region's other ambulance services.
WNNAA argues residents in Warwickshire deserve better than the current average response time of 17 minutes, which it claims it can slash to just seven minutes.
It also believes it will be the fastest air ambulance service in the UK and, if enough funding can be secured, will be the only service outside London to fly with a doctor on board.
Currently, no British air ambulance flies at night but the WNNAA will operate a national service flying sick children to a number of paediatric specialist centres such as Great Ormond Street in London.
However, County has questioned the need for the new service and panned its choice of aircraft - the Augusta 109 - claiming it is too big and expensive.
Danny Hopkins, a County Air Ambulance paramedic and one of the driving forces behind the new service, said there was "friction" between the two.
"I am disappointed County are being critical because we have had meetings about co-operating and covering incidents if they cannot, and vice versa," he said.
"We are looking to put a fourth air ambulance in service for the Midlands, everybody wins.
"It is just a matter of personal taste as to whether the actual aircraft is better or worse than another.
"I have flown on all of them and I much prefer the 109 because it is the fastest and gives you the best patient access."
Mr Hopkins said the ambulance can carry two patients and allows paramedics unrestricted access to work on them.
"I know County was thinking about stopping serving Warwickshire when we set up but it cannot do it because it would have to redirect all the donations it gets from the county to us.
"I am not into the politics of which aircraft costs what. All I care about is 17 minutes is not the response patients in the county deserve.
"The air ambulance at East Midlands Airport, which tends to attend Warwickshire incidents more, only operates for five days a week yet County have got £6 million in the bank."
A spokesman for the County Air Ambulance predicted there would be some confusion in Warwickshire among regular fundraisers over which service to donate to.
He added: "I would not want to be too critical of these new plans because obviously we wish them every success but it does seem strange it is being set up when Warwickshire is already served by three air ambulances.
"We have 12 years experience in this field and we would not have chosen that kind of aircraft. It is not as light and agile as we would demand from our own vehicles and it is very expensive.
"The Augusta will cost £1 million a year whereas our most expensive helicopter - the EC-135 - costs around £700,000 a year."
"We will still continue to operate in Warwickshire because over the years we have received a lot of money from donations from the people there and it would be wrong not to continue to support them."
County Air Ambulance, a charitable trust, serves an area of 6,000 sq miles and a population of more than six million people in Herefordshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, West Midlands and Worcestershire.
It also covers Gloucestershire, Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Powys in Wales.
Local news
Air ambulance 'breakaway' service Mar 17 2003
By Campbell Docherty, Birmingham Post
A war of words has broken out between the Midlands air ambulance service and a new operator being set up to cover part of the region.
Warwickshire and Northamptonshire National Air Ambulance (WNNAA) has targeted a July launch and is being backed by the Warwickshire Ambulance Service.
Effectively, it will be breaking away from County Air Ambulance, which currently operates three helicopters across the Midlands and enjoys the support of the region's other ambulance services.
WNNAA argues residents in Warwickshire deserve better than the current average response time of 17 minutes, which it claims it can slash to just seven minutes.
It also believes it will be the fastest air ambulance service in the UK and, if enough funding can be secured, will be the only service outside London to fly with a doctor on board.
Currently, no British air ambulance flies at night but the WNNAA will operate a national service flying sick children to a number of paediatric specialist centres such as Great Ormond Street in London.
However, County has questioned the need for the new service and panned its choice of aircraft - the Augusta 109 - claiming it is too big and expensive.
Danny Hopkins, a County Air Ambulance paramedic and one of the driving forces behind the new service, said there was "friction" between the two.
"I am disappointed County are being critical because we have had meetings about co-operating and covering incidents if they cannot, and vice versa," he said.
"We are looking to put a fourth air ambulance in service for the Midlands, everybody wins.
"It is just a matter of personal taste as to whether the actual aircraft is better or worse than another.
"I have flown on all of them and I much prefer the 109 because it is the fastest and gives you the best patient access."
Mr Hopkins said the ambulance can carry two patients and allows paramedics unrestricted access to work on them.
"I know County was thinking about stopping serving Warwickshire when we set up but it cannot do it because it would have to redirect all the donations it gets from the county to us.
"I am not into the politics of which aircraft costs what. All I care about is 17 minutes is not the response patients in the county deserve.
"The air ambulance at East Midlands Airport, which tends to attend Warwickshire incidents more, only operates for five days a week yet County have got £6 million in the bank."
A spokesman for the County Air Ambulance predicted there would be some confusion in Warwickshire among regular fundraisers over which service to donate to.
He added: "I would not want to be too critical of these new plans because obviously we wish them every success but it does seem strange it is being set up when Warwickshire is already served by three air ambulances.
"We have 12 years experience in this field and we would not have chosen that kind of aircraft. It is not as light and agile as we would demand from our own vehicles and it is very expensive.
"The Augusta will cost £1 million a year whereas our most expensive helicopter - the EC-135 - costs around £700,000 a year."
"We will still continue to operate in Warwickshire because over the years we have received a lot of money from donations from the people there and it would be wrong not to continue to support them."
County Air Ambulance, a charitable trust, serves an area of 6,000 sq miles and a population of more than six million people in Herefordshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, West Midlands and Worcestershire.
It also covers Gloucestershire, Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Powys in Wales.
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County Air Ambulance have a very high profile collection scheme in Warwickshire (as they do throughout the West Midlands area). It is a shame that Warwickshire Ambulance didn't consult the County people first, the money in the bank is a red herring, County need that to ensure a viable future for what is probably the most successful air ambulance charity in the country. All the same, I hope it works out to everybodies benefit.
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Another example of the unco-ordinated ambulance service in England. In Scotland, the air ambulances are a properly funded integral part of the ambulance service. The English should follow the example of the Scots and have a single ambulance authority which doesn't have to worry about invisible lines drawn on a political map.
This gets rid of post code variations of level of service and maximises the amount of money going to the front line. The amount of egotistical, bureaucratic wastage of money in England beggars belief.
Mr Hopkins (if he is quoted correctly) seems confused. The reaction time has little to do with the aircraft type - it relates to the dispatch procedure and the location of the aircraft. Does Mr Hopkins really have influence on how millions if taxpayers money is spent? I hope not.
This gets rid of post code variations of level of service and maximises the amount of money going to the front line. The amount of egotistical, bureaucratic wastage of money in England beggars belief.
Mr Hopkins (if he is quoted correctly) seems confused. The reaction time has little to do with the aircraft type - it relates to the dispatch procedure and the location of the aircraft. Does Mr Hopkins really have influence on how millions if taxpayers money is spent? I hope not.
This has been brewing for a month or two now.
It appears that a certain helicopter company noted that they have a 'spare' A109E and that there is no EMS service in Northamptonshire.
They managed to convince Warwickshire [who also view themselves as being in a backwater as far as air ambulances goes] that placing a new HEMS service [ie an upgrade on the County service in that a doctor would be carried] at Coventry Airport was affordable and sensible.
The dangers - if any - are that the aircraft TVAC has a prior record of breaking the back of its former operators. They went bust once and eventually staved off twice by moving downmarket to a BO105.
Warwickshire of course will have the use of hindsight and a slightly more advanced service into a new area.
So all may be well.
Or not.
It appears that a certain helicopter company noted that they have a 'spare' A109E and that there is no EMS service in Northamptonshire.
They managed to convince Warwickshire [who also view themselves as being in a backwater as far as air ambulances goes] that placing a new HEMS service [ie an upgrade on the County service in that a doctor would be carried] at Coventry Airport was affordable and sensible.
The dangers - if any - are that the aircraft TVAC has a prior record of breaking the back of its former operators. They went bust once and eventually staved off twice by moving downmarket to a BO105.
Warwickshire of course will have the use of hindsight and a slightly more advanced service into a new area.
So all may be well.
Or not.
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I think that there may be a case of nervousness here?
Having flown both types, the BO105 and the Agusta 109 E, i would be very interested to here the County representative justify his statement infering that the A109 is less capable of doing the job of the BO105.
I am sure that no one would say that County have not provided a good service to many areas around the country however if Warwickshire are unhappy about the service they are currently getting surely they should be allowed to make a choice without receiving a verbal bashing because they choose a different operator.
With regard to the claim that the A109 is too big, i suppose they would say that wouldn't they, compared to the Bolkow where we had to carry kit on the second stretcher and "Bump" off medical staff if an additional passenger needed to be carried the A109 was simply brilliant.
I would also take issue with PANews view that "the certain operators" aircraft broke the back of its former operator. No one would argue that the A109 is more expensive than a Bolkow however the service did not fail through a fault of the aircraft, i would suggest that it failed due to the charities inability to raise sufficient funding in one of the most affluent areas in the U.K.
There are many charities around the country that currently raise more than sufficient funds to operate a second generation helicopter whatever the type may be. Thankfully some people have vision otherwise the NHS would still be moving patients on horse and carts.
I wish all operators good luck and perhaps if people spent more time working together instead of trying to kock each other evrybody would benefit.
I totally agree with COALFACE, the U.K. should adopt the Scotland policy.
Having flown both types, the BO105 and the Agusta 109 E, i would be very interested to here the County representative justify his statement infering that the A109 is less capable of doing the job of the BO105.
I am sure that no one would say that County have not provided a good service to many areas around the country however if Warwickshire are unhappy about the service they are currently getting surely they should be allowed to make a choice without receiving a verbal bashing because they choose a different operator.
With regard to the claim that the A109 is too big, i suppose they would say that wouldn't they, compared to the Bolkow where we had to carry kit on the second stretcher and "Bump" off medical staff if an additional passenger needed to be carried the A109 was simply brilliant.
I would also take issue with PANews view that "the certain operators" aircraft broke the back of its former operator. No one would argue that the A109 is more expensive than a Bolkow however the service did not fail through a fault of the aircraft, i would suggest that it failed due to the charities inability to raise sufficient funding in one of the most affluent areas in the U.K.
There are many charities around the country that currently raise more than sufficient funds to operate a second generation helicopter whatever the type may be. Thankfully some people have vision otherwise the NHS would still be moving patients on horse and carts.
I wish all operators good luck and perhaps if people spent more time working together instead of trying to kock each other evrybody would benefit.
I totally agree with COALFACE, the U.K. should adopt the Scotland policy.
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You would have thought
Yes the country that built railways
Introduced safe navigation, courtesy of Harrison and his clocks.
Brunel.
Built a ship, disassembled said vessel; transported it to South America, in parts small enough to be carried by mules. Rebuilt it 7000 feet above sea level.
Could organise. A nationwide air ambulance service.
Get their act together, they couldn't paint the scenery.
To much paperwork not enough action.
Yes the country that built railways
Introduced safe navigation, courtesy of Harrison and his clocks.
Brunel.
Built a ship, disassembled said vessel; transported it to South America, in parts small enough to be carried by mules. Rebuilt it 7000 feet above sea level.
Could organise. A nationwide air ambulance service.
Get their act together, they couldn't paint the scenery.
To much paperwork not enough action.
Just to clarify a point here, I was not blaming the 109 I was simply stating that in order to meet the aspirations of others a newly born wet behind the ears charity found itself trying to pay more than it could afford for the helicopter it was using.
It was the charity who could not afford to operate the 109 but have apparently managed the 105.
They also intend to buy into a new generation type once they have found their feet after 'recovery' via the 105.
It was the charity who could not afford to operate the 109 but have apparently managed the 105.
They also intend to buy into a new generation type once they have found their feet after 'recovery' via the 105.
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I think the previous posting confirms my earlier statement, the fund raising activity were lacking, hence the retrograde step.
If you are going to provide cover in three counties, i would suggest that it would be beneficial to fund raise in them too!, ask County.
If you are going to provide cover in three counties, i would suggest that it would be beneficial to fund raise in them too!, ask County.
According to Sept. issue of Ambulance Today (I am not that sad, somebody else showed it to me!!) the Warwickshire Air Ambulance starts soon. Local paper says it will be October 1st.
Article in Ambulance Today also says Sloane have a Piaggio P180 Avanti available for fixed wing transfers to run alongside the Agusta. Anyone have any details?
Edited to correct random paramedic key presses!!
Article in Ambulance Today also says Sloane have a Piaggio P180 Avanti available for fixed wing transfers to run alongside the Agusta. Anyone have any details?
Edited to correct random paramedic key presses!!
Last edited by TeeS; 25th Sep 2003 at 01:34.
