AH-64 Apache
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: Harwich
Wonderful - Apache sweeps in to its forward base, lands between two pairs of grunts, one leaps forward and spears it with the refuelling nozzle, the others clip more rockets on, and 6.8 seconds later it's on its way back to the front line.
Most of the time.
Occasionally, the refueller pulls out the probe, big splash because it's gone wrong, wumph! and a dozen others rush over with fire extinguishers. Location of forward base no longer a secret as there's a 200ft column of black smoke pointing to it. Or, 6.8 seconds are up, off goes the heli with a crew of three - yep, the refueller didn't manage to get the probe out. How much is Bernie Ecclestone paying them to take this?
Most of the time.
Occasionally, the refueller pulls out the probe, big splash because it's gone wrong, wumph! and a dozen others rush over with fire extinguishers. Location of forward base no longer a secret as there's a 200ft column of black smoke pointing to it. Or, 6.8 seconds are up, off goes the heli with a crew of three - yep, the refueller didn't manage to get the probe out. How much is Bernie Ecclestone paying them to take this?
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Are the Army top brass still baffled by the lack of pilots?
In my day, when they had aspirations to take over RAF SH, they assumed that all the RAF Wessex, Chinook and Puma crews would rush to transfer to a brown uniform.
So what happened then chaps?
In my day, when they had aspirations to take over RAF SH, they assumed that all the RAF Wessex, Chinook and Puma crews would rush to transfer to a brown uniform.
So what happened then chaps?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: UK
There's another lesson for the UK Apaches to learn from F1:
Always ensure a ready supply of drivers by maintaining a stable system of training and development. Have you ever heard an F1 team say "Can't race - got no drivers!"
Always ensure a ready supply of drivers by maintaining a stable system of training and development. Have you ever heard an F1 team say "Can't race - got no drivers!"
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
Put the homeless to work.
If the Navy And Air Force pilots don’t want to transfer what about the existing pool of Army pilots. If that doesn’t work do what the US Army does. Recruit the future pilots off the street, train them as basic helicopter pilots and stream them into the Apache flight programs. In any case make sure the pilots are capable of using the helmet mounted sight. The US Army trained a lot of Apache pilots only to find out they could not adapt to the helmet mounted sights.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
JHC?
Join Hoon's Club?
Off you go chaps. If Mr Hoon says it's alright, then it must be alright.
Get those Khakis on.
Join Hoon's Club?
Off you go chaps. If Mr Hoon says it's alright, then it must be alright.
Get those Khakis on.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Apache Tail rotor setup
ANYONE,
im curious as to the setup of the apache tail rotor, from limited photos ive seen it seems though they have a set inboard and another set on the outboard side of the shaft. how does the pitch control work for both blade setups, is it a similair sytem to the 500 4 bladed tail rotor they produced?
Im sure someone can enlighten me as ive always been curious and no one can seem to tell me.
chhers guys
im curious as to the setup of the apache tail rotor, from limited photos ive seen it seems though they have a set inboard and another set on the outboard side of the shaft. how does the pitch control work for both blade setups, is it a similair sytem to the 500 4 bladed tail rotor they produced?
Im sure someone can enlighten me as ive always been curious and no one can seem to tell me.
chhers guys
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 489
Likes: 2
From: UK
It's nothing to do with acoustics!
People often state that the Aphace's seperated twin teeter 4-bladed tail rotor was so designed for a reduction in acoustic signature.
WRONG.
It was staggered along the axis to allow room for the mechanical elements of the design. This was made very clear by Ray Prouty at a recent discussion at the Boeing factory in Az.
Hope this clarifies matters
CRAN
WRONG.
It was staggered along the axis to allow room for the mechanical elements of the design. This was made very clear by Ray Prouty at a recent discussion at the Boeing factory in Az.
Hope this clarifies matters
CRAN
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 73
From: Pewsey, UK
I heard it was for survivability - separate the four blades into two pairs, one set gets hit, it's possible you'll end up with a working pair.
And I was also told that there's enough power with just two blades to give reasonable yaw control. However, any AH/WAH-64 pilots care to comment ?
And I was also told that there's enough power with just two blades to give reasonable yaw control. However, any AH/WAH-64 pilots care to comment ?
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
Scissors tail rotor.
The scissors tail rotor design was created to minimize the acoustic signature. The design concept was proven on an OH-6 that was modified to the acoustic requirements of a DARPA contract. The design concept included mounting the OH-6 airframe on a waterbrake dynamometer in order to isolate the different generators of noise. In the end the helicopter included a five-blade rotor that turned at a lower speed, the scissors tail rotor, a muffler on the engine exhaust and every part of the airframe was insulated to minimize the broadcasting of noise. The rotor systems were eventually incorporated on later models of the H-500.
When this helicopter flew over at 500 feet all you could hear was a “whoosh”. I think it ended up in Vietnam.
When this helicopter flew over at 500 feet all you could hear was a “whoosh”. I think it ended up in Vietnam.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
The modulated blade spacing (MBS) concept is also used on the latest generation of Eurocopter fenestron tail rotors. There are several papers on the mechanics of the concept available on-line, including one here
I/C
I/C
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Thanks guys you have enlightened me a bit, the noise signature makes sense but an interesting comment by NR Fairy about survivorbility which is a valid comment, interesting.
any apache drivers on this forum??
any apache drivers on this forum??
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
A picture is worth 995 words (inflation)
For a closer look try here.
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages...head/1077.html
To: Boathouse
If the Apache had a conventional four blade tail rotor vertical clearance would be compromized not for ground transportation but for transportation on the C-141. However the design was frozen prior to having air transport.
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages...head/1077.html
To: Boathouse
If the Apache had a conventional four blade tail rotor vertical clearance would be compromized not for ground transportation but for transportation on the C-141. However the design was frozen prior to having air transport.