Flying Early Helicopters
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From: Scotland
TT's control operation description fairly complete but excludes some interesting 'quirks' e.g.
the Sycamore throttle being transverse rather than longitudinal (muscle memory ?)
the Sioux rotor inertia allowing an e o l followed by a lift to low hover and a further e o l.
the Mil 8 throttle works in the opposite direction to Western types - Tern Hill QHI 'discovered' this when training a Jordanian student ... in a low level 'computer out' exercise !
... as to John Dixson's description of the rear-facing control on the Skycrane
the Sycamore throttle being transverse rather than longitudinal (muscle memory ?)
the Sioux rotor inertia allowing an e o l followed by a lift to low hover and a further e o l.
the Mil 8 throttle works in the opposite direction to Western types - Tern Hill QHI 'discovered' this when training a Jordanian student ... in a low level 'computer out' exercise !
... as to John Dixson's description of the rear-facing control on the Skycrane
Found this a while ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_M._Young
Early Helicopter Control Layout - the 'Pump Handle' Collective in the pilots left hand
FLOYD CARLSON
https://vertipedia.vtol.org/biograph...biographyID/22
.
To Quote one viewer - "Mystery of [helicopter] flight just unfolded in front my eyes. Brilliant piece of documentary.
Last edited by Deep Throat; 23rd September 2025 at 09:58.
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From: Scotland
This could be one of the first images of what we would describe as a conventional helicopter - in the video this configuration does not yet have 'conventional controls
Sikorsky
Sikorsky
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Connecticut
Another illustration (mine) of the initial Bell Model 30 flight controls:
The "pump handle" was also yaw control; there were no rudder pedals. After a Bell test pilot was assigned to the program, rudder pedals were added and the throttle put on the collective.
The "pump handle" was also yaw control; there were no rudder pedals. After a Bell test pilot was assigned to the program, rudder pedals were added and the throttle put on the collective.
Last edited by Tailspin Turtle; 23rd September 2025 at 12:09.
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From: Abeam YAYE
Fraid knot, 212man; I beat Tailspin Turtle by 3 posts. But, unlike TT I can’t claim any expertise, not even any rotary time, save a TIF in a Hiller many years ago and a couple of opportunities to play that cropped up in my fixed-wing career.
In the fixed-wing department, I am quite a fan of Gann. And of Eric “Winkle” Brown. EKG tells a story in his book, Flying Circus, about the bloke who taught me to fly the DC3 and Winkle Brown was a much admired colleague of my late Dear Old Dad, who was a Seafire pilot in the RNVR.
As you might expect, Fate Is The Hunter and Wings On My Sleeve have a place on my bookshelf.
When the OP posted the question, I remembered WB’s account in his book. I then asked ChatGPT to fill in the blanks and give me something to post for the benefit of this discussion…. thus my post #8.
Interestingly, in post #8, you can see where aí corrected my Chat Prompt in its answer (1945, not 1944).
So, piltblot beat Tailspin Turtle in this environment. Somehow however, I doubt either were the first to use AÍ in pprune-land.
Cheers,
pithblot
In the fixed-wing department, I am quite a fan of Gann. And of Eric “Winkle” Brown. EKG tells a story in his book, Flying Circus, about the bloke who taught me to fly the DC3 and Winkle Brown was a much admired colleague of my late Dear Old Dad, who was a Seafire pilot in the RNVR.
As you might expect, Fate Is The Hunter and Wings On My Sleeve have a place on my bookshelf.
When the OP posted the question, I remembered WB’s account in his book. I then asked ChatGPT to fill in the blanks and give me something to post for the benefit of this discussion…. thus my post #8.
Interestingly, in post #8, you can see where aí corrected my Chat Prompt in its answer (1945, not 1944).
So, piltblot beat Tailspin Turtle in this environment. Somehow however, I doubt either were the first to use AÍ in pprune-land.
Cheers,
pithblot
Joined: Sep 2018
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From: California
I flew a 22 with a cassette deck in it. Lucky me I still had one tape left (Rainbow- Long Live Rock 'N Roll). I listened to it one night on a flight down to Monterey.
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From: UK
Warm Throat, thank you !
Absolutely fascinating film, in particular the time scale, From that most basic experimentation to the relative 'sophistication' of such as the Dragonfly, Sycamore and the proliferation of rotary wing products of the 50s was remarkable.
The mention of the early speed checks being based on formating with a car, brought back memories of one of our Boscombe trials ... early start and the '5 wheel' L R u/s, so the test engineer (fully kitted in flying gear with parachute and bone dome !) on a bicycle, holding an anemometer (to provide accurate airspeeds) for a Wessex, tethered to a Bedford 5 tonner, checking low speed power curves ... Heath Robinson ? - maybe, but it worked
Absolutely fascinating film, in particular the time scale, From that most basic experimentation to the relative 'sophistication' of such as the Dragonfly, Sycamore and the proliferation of rotary wing products of the 50s was remarkable.
The mention of the early speed checks being based on formating with a car, brought back memories of one of our Boscombe trials ... early start and the '5 wheel' L R u/s, so the test engineer (fully kitted in flying gear with parachute and bone dome !) on a bicycle, holding an anemometer (to provide accurate airspeeds) for a Wessex, tethered to a Bedford 5 tonner, checking low speed power curves ... Heath Robinson ? - maybe, but it worked
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: east ESSEX
SAS,yes but the blades had a steel spar,multiple wood ribs and veneers.I think the fabric was really an outer
covering,as a protective cover,rather than as on other fabric wings,yo can get `ballooning` between ribs.as fabric has to be sewn onto each rib.I don`t think the AACorps had a `Needlework` section,but `who knows`.?
I blagged a trip in a `Skeeter` at Ternhill,whilst doing the `basic` helo course.Until the Gazelle came along ,flying the Skeeter was like sitting in a favourite leather armchair,and whizzing about like a demented fly at 50ft,or even 5 ft...!!
covering,as a protective cover,rather than as on other fabric wings,yo can get `ballooning` between ribs.as fabric has to be sewn onto each rib.I don`t think the AACorps had a `Needlework` section,but `who knows`.?
I blagged a trip in a `Skeeter` at Ternhill,whilst doing the `basic` helo course.Until the Gazelle came along ,flying the Skeeter was like sitting in a favourite leather armchair,and whizzing about like a demented fly at 50ft,or even 5 ft...!!
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: 11 GROUP
Rather like a Rotary version of a Turbulent Syc, when did 'autorotation' become a part of regular training in the Rotary world.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 26th September 2025 at 00:34. Reason: Quote attribution
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From: South East Asia
Gnome de PPRuNe
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From: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Vaguely recall a story of an ag Hiller or maybe a Bell 47 being flown home from a fairly remote location in the US with a mechanic hanging onto the side of the engine platform, holding a fundamental part of the gubbins together... anyone put flesh on that one?
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
Seems to me there was an accident involving a Soloy Hiller where a mechanic went outside to manipulate a control linkage but fell from the aircraft and was killed. It was a long time ago and would have happened at Olympia, Washington. I cannot recall the details but involved Soloy employees.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Europe
I think that was a story by the founder of TEMSCO, Ken Eicher. His Passenger used a screwdriver to hold a control linkage on the swashplate together. If I remember correctly.
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From: UK
Hooton Park Trust on the Wirral has a Sikorsky R-4B on display. The trust only opens one day a month and that day is this Sunday 28th if you fancy a look.
Hooton Park - R-4B Hoverfly
History of the particular aircraft - Hoverfly History
Hooton Park - R-4B Hoverfly
History of the particular aircraft - Hoverfly History