Autorotations & Low RRPM in Flight Schools

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by Hangarless

I believe that it is very beneficial to learn to fly on a machine that has neither a correlator or a governor, which in my case was an Enstrom.I believe that it creates a very solid platform My instructor was also big on getting us to use not only our feel and eyes to see what was going on but also to develop listening skills as to what the sounds of a laboring engine or an over revving engine were.

Doing quickstops , which are essentially the last move in an Auto ,over and over again developed a good co-ordination of all of the flight control and throttle movements that all had to be made in harmony to achieve smooth stops without gaining height while keeping the needles within the limits.

What my instructor did one day was to hold the throttle when I tried to open it after doing a quickstop which resulted in the machine sinking and we ended up running the machine onto the runway with low power. Once we had stopped moving he looked at me and said "that is what a full Auto to the ground feels like". From then on it was easy for me as my instructor had taught me to become comfortable with making big control movements and also not to fear letting the skids make contact with the surface with a little bit of forward speed.

The F-28C has no Correlator, the F-28F and 280FX both have correlators. If they weren't so snag prone, they'd be great trainers...

[That lights normal!]

Originally Posted by Agile

Joy riding, you mean going down the river canyon to lace a few 45deg turns, and climb the face of the ridge with generous negative G at the top....?!
Sorry I stay away from R22, R44+ for that... Rigid head much more reactive and safer.

You think the 300 has a “Rigid head”?

[Hangarless]

Originally Posted by That lights normal!

You think the 300 has a “Rigid head”?

Probably meant to say articulated head.

[B2N2]

Not a helicopter pilot but suggesting to the Chief Instructor shutting the sole engine down for ‘better’ training suggests a scary level of ignorance.

[SLFMS]

Originally Posted by Aicila2491

Hello everyone. Thank you in advance for your time reading and answering my question.

I would like to know if it is convinient, worth it and smart to ask my flight school or Chief Pilot to train Autorotations with the engine actually off and to train manual RRPM skills (i.e. Governor Off).

The Pilot's Operating Handbook states " Flight is prohibited with governor selected off, with the exceptions for in-flight system malfunction or emergency procedures training"

The reason for me wanting to train this way is to get comfortable in hazardous conditions and learn how to really identify the incipient stages of both emergency situations.

thanks again,

A

IMHO

Governor off training is a must, as already stated they should be doing with you anyway.

It is a shame the correlator off(disconnected) training couldn’t be done to give the student a solid foundation of actual throttle movement at different power settings.

Power off auto with no engine is a very bad idea as stated above.
Power off auto with engine on is also not worth the risk.
I have taught power off and powered recovery and the extra risk isn’t worth it for the power off. If you can manoeuvre the aircraft to a defined spot and flare at various speeds followed by levelling the skids you are prepared.

As a student you will spend a hell of a lot of time doing autos but in the real world they are pretty rare. Engines have become more and more reliable both piston and turbine. I’m not saying they should not be learnt rather that a lot of time is spent on that emergency at the cost of others that are statistically much more likely to get you.

In the real world you don’t get an engine failure over a nice landing spot with plenty of over and undershoot. Even then the bit that normally kills people is the top bit and not getting the entry right. Power off practice autos by necessity teach you how to do a perfect auto at 55kts there’s not much margin before the instructor has to intervene to keep it safe.
For an actual failure you may have to accept a flare entry speed well away from optimum but that allows you to get into a clear area away from trees/building etc

As for teaching the incipient stages of engine failure that’s very hard to do realistically. Chopping the throttle isn’t the same as throwing a piston. Just focus on reacting by lowering the lever as appropriate followed by confirming it is an engine failure and not something else.

[the coyote]

I've had 3 engine-outs in single engine helicopters. All with zero damage from the touchdown. Good auto training is important. From what I see on here and social media, a hell of a lot of training seems to teach a high run on speed to a nice hard runway or grass surface. You can't do that to the water, beach, desert, forest, rocks etc. If you can safely get it to a sensible height above the ground, with good RRPM, and at zero speed, you will almost certainly walk away in my view, even if the skids are bent. Far less likely if it rolls over from carrying too much speed onto a hostile surface. Bear in mind they are designed to absorb vertical impact, not forward impact.

I was taught, and always trained autos to touchdown with the engine at idle. If a student or pilot has only learned to run it on at speed, they will almost certainly roll it up when it quits over that ploughed paddock.

[jeepys]

Originally Posted by the coyote

I've had 3 engine-outs in single engine helicopters. All with zero damage from the touchdown. Good auto training is important. From what I see on here and social media, a hell of a lot of training seems to teach a high run on speed to a nice hard runway or grass surface. You can't do that to the water, beach, desert, forest, rocks etc. If you can safely get it to a sensible height above the ground, with good RRPM, and at zero speed, you will almost certainly walk away in my view, even if the skids are bent. Far less likely if it rolls over from carrying too much speed onto a hostile surface. Bear in mind they are designed to absorb vertical impact, not forward impact.

I was taught, and always trained autos to touchdown with the engine at idle. If a student or pilot has only learned to run it on at speed, they will almost certainly roll it up when it quits over that ploughed paddock.

3 engine outs. Get a different maintenance facility!

[Aicila2491]

SLFMS: Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. The reason I am asking is because I want to be the best prepared I can for an emergency even if this makes the training more "risky". It is not that I am oblivious of the risks... I might even be too aware of them. I just want to be the best pilot I can and understanding and training the emergencies is the way to do it.

I would like to ask you another question. ¿Which emergencies would you say are statistically more prone to happen? ¿Could you reference a link or document? I am going to study them in more detail.

Thanks again.

A.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by Aicila2491

SLFMS:

I would like to ask you another question. ¿Which emergencies would you say are statistically more prone to happen? ¿Could you reference a link or document? I am going to study them in more detail.

Thanks again.

A.

Wire strikes and flying VFR into IMC are the two biggest killers.