Professional advice
Avoid imitations
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Some thoughts:
Aviation nut from the age of five.
Air Cadets, gliding solo at the age of 16,
RAF flying scholarship at the age of 17
RAF jet training at the age of 20
RAF helicopter training at the age of 22
RAF helicopter captain at the age of 23
RAF QHI at the age of 28
RAF display pilot at the age of 31
RAF QFI at the age of 33
Government Captain on SAR/VIP/Special ops age of 38
Police Air support unit chief pilot age of 42
Corporate/VIP Captain from the age of 45
Still flying helicopters until retirement, possibly 13,000 hours later.
Was I ever an "Expert" pilot? I might have been just about able to see the bottom rung of the ladder by the end of my career time.
Was I an "Expert pilot" after 500 hours? By that stage I knew nothing much about flying at all worth talking about.
As for building a new aviation business in a foreign country from scratch, doing something in aviation no-one has ever done before, in what is probably one of the most demanding roles there is, when I couldn't even speak the language.... and learning to operate helicopters - I'd be a legend.
Good luck is all I can say.
Aviation nut from the age of five.
Air Cadets, gliding solo at the age of 16,
RAF flying scholarship at the age of 17
RAF jet training at the age of 20
RAF helicopter training at the age of 22
RAF helicopter captain at the age of 23
RAF QHI at the age of 28
RAF display pilot at the age of 31
RAF QFI at the age of 33
Government Captain on SAR/VIP/Special ops age of 38
Police Air support unit chief pilot age of 42
Corporate/VIP Captain from the age of 45
Still flying helicopters until retirement, possibly 13,000 hours later.
Was I ever an "Expert" pilot? I might have been just about able to see the bottom rung of the ladder by the end of my career time.
Was I an "Expert pilot" after 500 hours? By that stage I knew nothing much about flying at all worth talking about.
As for building a new aviation business in a foreign country from scratch, doing something in aviation no-one has ever done before, in what is probably one of the most demanding roles there is, when I couldn't even speak the language.... and learning to operate helicopters - I'd be a legend.
Good luck is all I can say.
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I remember the saying of expert... "ex" as in former or has been, "spurt" as in a little drip.... there always has been and always will be the definition of the licence as in "a licence to learn"... I am NOT a high-timer but everyone I know that is still says the same... 
Tough crowd!
The amount of advice….
The company linked to up near the start of the thread, HBC, has been in operation since 2016, has a Canadian (though Japanese speaking) owner, flying a straight B model 350 from the 1980’s!! Now suddenly, this OP’s wish to do the same in a new 407 is absolutely impossible?!?
500 hrs is not a whole lot of flying, BUT if you plan on flying your own machine getting training (presumably by some of you perhaps?!?) for several hundred hours in the operating environment, I hazard a guess that the 500hr pilot will be more suitable than a 3000hr CFI/Grand Canyon tourjockey or a utility pilot that has 5000hrs firefighting or bird towing.
Hours is only hours. Experience is something else.
The amount of advice….
The company linked to up near the start of the thread, HBC, has been in operation since 2016, has a Canadian (though Japanese speaking) owner, flying a straight B model 350 from the 1980’s!! Now suddenly, this OP’s wish to do the same in a new 407 is absolutely impossible?!?
500 hrs is not a whole lot of flying, BUT if you plan on flying your own machine getting training (presumably by some of you perhaps?!?) for several hundred hours in the operating environment, I hazard a guess that the 500hr pilot will be more suitable than a 3000hr CFI/Grand Canyon tourjockey or a utility pilot that has 5000hrs firefighting or bird towing.
Hours is only hours. Experience is something else.
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Maybe Pitchka misread/understood it a bit.
In the UK (don't know how it is in Canada) but in the UK when a private owner reaches 500hrs, the insurance will decrease significantly.
Not sure if this is also for commercial operations but 100% sure that for a private owner, the insurance becomes less painful after 500hrs.
Does this make the pilot an expert at 500hrs.......I think you would need an extra 0 to get to expert level.
In the UK (don't know how it is in Canada) but in the UK when a private owner reaches 500hrs, the insurance will decrease significantly.
Not sure if this is also for commercial operations but 100% sure that for a private owner, the insurance becomes less painful after 500hrs.
Does this make the pilot an expert at 500hrs.......I think you would need an extra 0 to get to expert level.
Tough crowd!
The amount of advice….
The company linked to up near the start of the thread, HBC, has been in operation since 2016, has a Canadian (though Japanese speaking) owner, flying a straight B model 350 from the 1980’s!! Now suddenly, this OP’s wish to do the same in a new 407 is absolutely impossible?!?
500 hrs is not a whole lot of flying, BUT if you plan on flying your own machine getting training (presumably by some of you perhaps?!?) for several hundred hours in the operating environment, I hazard a guess that the 500hr pilot will be more suitable than a 3000hr CFI/Grand Canyon tourjockey or a utility pilot that has 5000hrs firefighting or bird towing.
Hours is only hours. Experience is something else.
The amount of advice….
The company linked to up near the start of the thread, HBC, has been in operation since 2016, has a Canadian (though Japanese speaking) owner, flying a straight B model 350 from the 1980’s!! Now suddenly, this OP’s wish to do the same in a new 407 is absolutely impossible?!?
500 hrs is not a whole lot of flying, BUT if you plan on flying your own machine getting training (presumably by some of you perhaps?!?) for several hundred hours in the operating environment, I hazard a guess that the 500hr pilot will be more suitable than a 3000hr CFI/Grand Canyon tourjockey or a utility pilot that has 5000hrs firefighting or bird towing.
Hours is only hours. Experience is something else.
Either way, following another piece of good advice I'll simply do my training in Japan. Looks like Airbus has a spectacular training facility in Kobe. This will allow me to greatly improve my skill in the Japanese language and build local industry connections. Buying a machine once work is secured makes a lot of sense. This simply means that I will postpone hobby flying for a few years. Oh well, I'll get a six pack of Porsches to keep me busy for the time being!
Thank you to all involved. Close the thread please.
He can probably maintain it on the cheap using a surplus of spare part available from the old Astar pool. With a valid airworthiness cerificate and a nice paint job the customer base will not discriminate.
Heli-skiing is one thing an operating a helicopter is another - ask me how I know.
Smart guy at HBC, no need to splurge on a fancy machine on those marginal markets, max altitude there is 1100 meters, old AS350B is perfect and fuel efficient (compared to a B3)
He can probably maintain it on the cheap using a surplus of spare part available from the old Astar pool. With a valid airworthiness cerificate and a nice paint job the customer base will not discriminate.
He can probably maintain it on the cheap using a surplus of spare part available from the old Astar pool. With a valid airworthiness cerificate and a nice paint job the customer base will not discriminate.
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The 500 hour thing in Canada comes from CAR 702.17. This extract is from CARS In Plain English, because the rules just refer you to Commercial Air Service Standards, i.e, 722.17
702.17 VFR Minimum Visibility - Uncontrolled Airspace
AEROPLANES
Must fly so that obstacles can be seen and avoided. To operate down to 1 mile in uncontrolled
airspace, you need an artificial horizon, a DI or gyro compass and a GPS, matching the Flight
Manual. You must have at least 500 hours Part VII (commercial) experience, or the equivalent
in the same category and class of aeroplane. You also need to attend a Pilot Decision Making
course every three years.
You also need one hours' initial and annual recurrent training in basic instrument manoeuvres
and flight at reduced airspeed with the use of all equipment mentioned above, and in all Ops
Manual low visibility procedures.
The Ops Manual must contain information about minimum safe speeds and configurations
and other considerations, such as wind, weights, time of day, communications, etc.
HELICOPTERS
To go down to half a mile in uncontrolled airspace, you must fly at such a speed that obstacles
can be seen and avoided. You also need at least 500 hours (commercial) PIC in helicopters,
but, otherwise, the conditions are as above.
702.17 VFR Minimum Visibility - Uncontrolled Airspace
AEROPLANES
Must fly so that obstacles can be seen and avoided. To operate down to 1 mile in uncontrolled
airspace, you need an artificial horizon, a DI or gyro compass and a GPS, matching the Flight
Manual. You must have at least 500 hours Part VII (commercial) experience, or the equivalent
in the same category and class of aeroplane. You also need to attend a Pilot Decision Making
course every three years.
You also need one hours' initial and annual recurrent training in basic instrument manoeuvres
and flight at reduced airspeed with the use of all equipment mentioned above, and in all Ops
Manual low visibility procedures.
The Ops Manual must contain information about minimum safe speeds and configurations
and other considerations, such as wind, weights, time of day, communications, etc.
HELICOPTERS
To go down to half a mile in uncontrolled airspace, you must fly at such a speed that obstacles
can be seen and avoided. You also need at least 500 hours (commercial) PIC in helicopters,
but, otherwise, the conditions are as above.
Last edited by paco; 19th Dec 2023 at 07:32.
I wonder how many Japanese pilots flying Japanese registered helicopters in Japanese airspace are familiar with that one? If someone wanted to start a space shuttle tour operation on the moon would we give them this much time?
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The 500 hour thing in Canada comes from CAR 702.17. This extract is from CARS In Plain English, because the rules just refer you to Commercial Air Service Standards, i.e, 722.17
702.17 VFR Minimum Visibility - Uncontrolled Airspace
AEROPLANES
Must fly so that obstacles can be seen and avoided. To operate down to 1 mile in uncontrolled
airspace, you need an artificial horizon, a DI or gyro compass and a GPS, matching the Flight
Manual. You must have at least 500 hours Part VII (commercial) experience, or the equivalent
in the same category and class of aeroplane. You also need to attend a Pilot Decision Making
course every three years.
You also need one hours' initial and annual recurrent training in basic instrument manoeuvres
and flight at reduced airspeed with the use of all equipment mentioned above, and in all Ops
Manual low visibility procedures.
The Ops Manual must contain information about minimum safe speeds and configurations
and other considerations, such as wind, weights, time of day, communications, etc.
HELICOPTERS
To go down to half a mile in uncontrolled airspace, you must fly at such a speed that obstacles
can be seen and avoided. You also need at least 500 hours (commercial) PIC in helicopters,
but, otherwise, the conditions are as above.
702.17 VFR Minimum Visibility - Uncontrolled Airspace
AEROPLANES
Must fly so that obstacles can be seen and avoided. To operate down to 1 mile in uncontrolled
airspace, you need an artificial horizon, a DI or gyro compass and a GPS, matching the Flight
Manual. You must have at least 500 hours Part VII (commercial) experience, or the equivalent
in the same category and class of aeroplane. You also need to attend a Pilot Decision Making
course every three years.
You also need one hours' initial and annual recurrent training in basic instrument manoeuvres
and flight at reduced airspeed with the use of all equipment mentioned above, and in all Ops
Manual low visibility procedures.
The Ops Manual must contain information about minimum safe speeds and configurations
and other considerations, such as wind, weights, time of day, communications, etc.
HELICOPTERS
To go down to half a mile in uncontrolled airspace, you must fly at such a speed that obstacles
can be seen and avoided. You also need at least 500 hours (commercial) PIC in helicopters,
but, otherwise, the conditions are as above.
Thread Starter
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How does this statement pertain to the topic at hand or the ignominious, reactive behaviour displayed by many of the members here?
Here goes... You're talking about starting a flying business in Japan yet referencing Canadian regulations. You want to learn to fly from scratch to do this, which will trigger a lot of us for its unrealistic chances of succeeding, considering that the generally accepted principle is that if you want to make a small fortune in aviation you need to start with a large fortune. To be a pilot is achievable. To run an aviation business is achievable. To start a business I order to fly for that business is Pie-in-the-sky thinking. The red tape alone will drown you to the point that you will never have time to fly. Air operator certificates generally require post holders with qualifications and experience way in excess of 500 hours. And all this is going to happen in a foreign country - probably the most 'foreign' environment a westerner can imagine. I would never trample on a dream, but maybe start with something more realistic. Get a medical, get a CPL and go from there.
Regarding the 500h PIC time, I don't think you understand, how PIC is logged and Japan's regulations might hold a few more surprises for you.
This means that you need 500h of PIC time AFTER you got your commercial license.
And there is another stumbling block. Apart from the US, I know of no other country, where you can log PIC time while receiving instruction. PACO can probably enlighten us with the Canadian rules, but that will not help you at all, if Japan counts them differently. On AOPA Japan's site (I think) there is the hint, that anyone applying for a Japanese pilot license must go trough their logbook and recalculate their flight time according to the rules of Japan.
If TC does not allow logging PIC while receiving instruction, you might end up well below that 500h threshold you are aiming for, even by Canadian rules.
Again, whatever the Canadian rules are, that can differ largely from other countries and will not help you at all. Canadian rules do not apply to Japan.
You also need at least 500 hours (commercial) PIC in helicopters,
And there is another stumbling block. Apart from the US, I know of no other country, where you can log PIC time while receiving instruction. PACO can probably enlighten us with the Canadian rules, but that will not help you at all, if Japan counts them differently. On AOPA Japan's site (I think) there is the hint, that anyone applying for a Japanese pilot license must go trough their logbook and recalculate their flight time according to the rules of Japan.
If TC does not allow logging PIC while receiving instruction, you might end up well below that 500h threshold you are aiming for, even by Canadian rules.
Again, whatever the Canadian rules are, that can differ largely from other countries and will not help you at all. Canadian rules do not apply to Japan.
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Here goes... You're talking about starting a flying business in Japan yet referencing Canadian regulations. You want to learn to fly from scratch to do this, which will trigger a lot of us for its unrealistic chances of succeeding, considering that the generally accepted principle is that if you want to make a small fortune in aviation you need to start with a large fortune. To be a pilot is achievable. To run an aviation business is achievable. To start a business I order to fly for that business is Pie-in-the-sky thinking. The red tape alone will drown you to the point that you will never have time to fly. Air operator certificates generally require post holders with qualifications and experience way in excess of 500 hours. And all this is going to happen in a foreign country - probably the most 'foreign' environment a westerner can imagine. I would never trample on a dream, but maybe start with something more realistic. Get a medical, get a CPL and go from there.
My original plan was to train in Canada; all of my research on helicopter operation was exclusive to the country, hence the confusion caused by my statement regarding piloting expertise and the 500-hour limit. Two posts in this thread (graciously submitted by helpful individuals) show that the Canadian government and insurance underwriters regard the abovementioned amount of experience as a benchmark of expertise. As I have stated ad nauseam, I regard my planned training curriculum and the target 500 PIC instructed hours as the first step in a lengthy journey to mastering the skill of helicopter operation, not an indicator of expertise.
As indicated in the first post, my educational and professional background is in business administration, and my foremost interest in aviation is for the personal enjoyment of controlled flight. I do not intend to spend a penny before I validate my business proposition through further market research and consultations with relevant subject matter experts and regulatory agencies. As I have stated before, I'm open to hiring an experienced chief pilot, who, in turn, would also function as my instructor. I understand that a helicopter is a small part of the proposed operation. In the first post, I indicated that I identified a business opportunity in the market; as I do not care to divulge the particulars, my post focused on the soundness of the business proposition from the safety perspective.
As I indicated above, I will take a slower approach by training in Japan, learning the language, and forging industry connections over a couple of years before purchasing a machine.
Thank you to all the productive contributors!
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"In the first post, I indicated that I identified a business opportunity in the market; as I do not care to divulge the particulars, my post focused on the soundness of the business proposition from the safety perspective."
Fair enough, but if you are open to the idea of hiring a Chief Pilot, you don't have to fly yourself anyway, so you don't technically need a pilot licence to get things going. If you've got a definite business opening, I would get in there first - the accountable manager of a company doesn't need qualifications, but the nominated postholders do.
A friend of mine did that in Canada, pleasure flying, and he had them queuing a mile long. He made way more money than just plain flying, although he did that as well.
Phil
Fair enough, but if you are open to the idea of hiring a Chief Pilot, you don't have to fly yourself anyway, so you don't technically need a pilot licence to get things going. If you've got a definite business opening, I would get in there first - the accountable manager of a company doesn't need qualifications, but the nominated postholders do.
A friend of mine did that in Canada, pleasure flying, and he had them queuing a mile long. He made way more money than just plain flying, although he did that as well.
Phil
Last edited by paco; 19th Dec 2023 at 12:29.
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Regarding the 500h PIC time, I don't think you understand, how PIC is logged and Japan's regulations might hold a few more surprises for you.
This means that you need 500h of PIC time AFTER you got your commercial license.
And there is another stumbling block. Apart from the US, I know of no other country, where you can log PIC time while receiving instruction. PACO can probably enlighten us with the Canadian rules, but that will not help you at all, if Japan counts them differently. On AOPA Japan's site (I think) there is the hint, that anyone applying for a Japanese pilot license must go trough their logbook and recalculate their flight time according to the rules of Japan.
If TC does not allow logging PIC while receiving instruction, you might end up well below that 500h threshold you are aiming for, even by Canadian rules.
Again, whatever the Canadian rules are, that can differ largely from other countries and will not help you at all. Canadian rules do not apply to Japan.
This means that you need 500h of PIC time AFTER you got your commercial license.
And there is another stumbling block. Apart from the US, I know of no other country, where you can log PIC time while receiving instruction. PACO can probably enlighten us with the Canadian rules, but that will not help you at all, if Japan counts them differently. On AOPA Japan's site (I think) there is the hint, that anyone applying for a Japanese pilot license must go trough their logbook and recalculate their flight time according to the rules of Japan.
If TC does not allow logging PIC while receiving instruction, you might end up well below that 500h threshold you are aiming for, even by Canadian rules.
Again, whatever the Canadian rules are, that can differ largely from other countries and will not help you at all. Canadian rules do not apply to Japan.
Not everyone need to logg every hour they spend in the air.