Automated Autorotation landing
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Canada/Malaysia
Automated Autorotation landing
Last edited by BlankBox; 15th November 2023 at 23:37.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 446
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From: South East Asia
Than said, a lot of people still mess up, good pilot included.
- A full authority automated autorotation landing for the real life, would be extremely complex, starting with AI camera to be able to recognize suitable landing sites, weight them against other parameter such as proximity, wind direction, obstacles, then come up with a strategic landing patern.... all that in real time... good luck with that.
- A partial authority autorotation help assist, that would be nice, just to anticipate colective down and regulate your RRPM, while you look arround for your landing strategy would be nice.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 447
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From: Europe
Yes another video spoiled by too many drama layer on top
Than said, a lot of people still mess up, good pilot included.
Than said, a lot of people still mess up, good pilot included.
- A full authority automated autorotation landing for the real life, would be extremely complex, starting with AI camera to be able to recognize suitable landing sites, weight them against other parameter such as proximity, wind direction, obstacles, then come up with a strategic landing patern.... all that in real time... good luck with that.
- A partial authority autorotation help assist, that would be nice, just to anticipate colective down and regulate your RRPM, while you look arround for your landing strategy would be nice.
I am there with you, a partial autorotation helper would be nice. That could be added to the SAS they have. On the other hand, if you have people who are only able to use a tablet to control the helicopter, I pretty much doubt, that they would be able to find a suitable landing spot in the time frame they have. I think a real pilot would do better and a real pilot probably would like to fly him/herself.
Time will tell, but if you ask me what happens in the next 20 years, we will see more and more autonomous flying things that can do all of that. You can do that with a map. You don't need the whole world map for that. When you load a flight plan into the ships computer, you can already load all the emergency landing spots and even let the ship fly the safest route with that information. A camera would only help if it sees something. Night and VMC, even with IR, might not be enough. Anyway, the AI part could be done by a central server, because autonomous flight with paying passengers would only be possible under constant positive control by the operator and ATC.
I can see the advantage and any help with the RPM would be welcome, but where is the fun in flying something with a tablet.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Canada
V1 : “Why would you want to build this system?”
Voices 2-3-4-5 ect.: “Because we think it would be really cool and we think we have the tech to do it.”
V1 : “Really, so how much time and $$$$$$ will it cost and who’s going to pay for it? How many engine failures are we experiencing on our marvellous Bung Verti-Leap Fun-Bus per year? Just off the top of my head what happens when this miraculous all seeing, all dancing invention screws up? We’ll get our ass sued off! How many customers would even want this system?”
Voices 2-3-4-5 ect.: “Because we think it would be really cool and we think we have the tech to do it.”
V1 : “Really, so how much time and $$$$$$ will it cost and who’s going to pay for it? How many engine failures are we experiencing on our marvellous Bung Verti-Leap Fun-Bus per year? Just off the top of my head what happens when this miraculous all seeing, all dancing invention screws up? We’ll get our ass sued off! How many customers would even want this system?”
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Arizona
Maybe just a tad.
But seriously, the automation just replaces the easy part of an engine failure. That part can be accomplished by student pilots with training.
The part that gets people hurt is the availability/selection of the landing area, not sure if that is going to lend itself to automation.
But seriously, the automation just replaces the easy part of an engine failure. That part can be accomplished by student pilots with training.
The part that gets people hurt is the availability/selection of the landing area, not sure if that is going to lend itself to automation.
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Brantisvogan
Maybe just a tad.
But seriously, the automation just replaces the easy part of an engine failure. That part can be accomplished by student pilots with training.
The part that gets people hurt is the availability/selection of the landing area, not sure if that is going to lend itself to automation.
But seriously, the automation just replaces the easy part of an engine failure. That part can be accomplished by student pilots with training.
The part that gets people hurt is the availability/selection of the landing area, not sure if that is going to lend itself to automation.
This in itself is useful in singles, as that is usually where the problems start.
It is easier to pick a better spot when some of the mental workload has been offloaded and you can focus on what direction you need to be pointing towards.
There is a broad range of competency and talent flying light helicopters, and that is a level of automation that can make a difference to safety.
It isn't a replacement for good technique, particularly if the technology fails at the wrong moment, and if it doubles the price of the ship then no one will want it.
Maybe Hill can quickly add that as an option to the HX50
Joined: Nov 2023
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From: Canada
As we move into the future of rotary wing operations, automation will become more and more a part of the machines we fly. I think this is great, but also a double edge sword. Too much reliance and core skills will slowly disappear - not a good thing IMO. Automation is just another skillset that will need attention while maintaining the ability to take over and hand fly when needed. At least (I hope) this will mean pilots will be needed for a long time yet...
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 226
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From: Arizona
iirc Bell have automated the auto entry and maintaining optimal RRPM in the 525.
This in itself is useful in singles, as that is usually where the problems start.
It is easier to pick a better spot when some of the mental workload has been offloaded and you can focus on what direction you need to be pointing towards.
There is a broad range of competency and talent flying light helicopters, and that is a level of automation that can make a difference to safety.
It isn't a replacement for good technique, particularly if the technology fails at the wrong moment, and if it doubles the price of the ship then no one will want it.
Maybe Hill can quickly add that as an option to the HX50
This in itself is useful in singles, as that is usually where the problems start.
It is easier to pick a better spot when some of the mental workload has been offloaded and you can focus on what direction you need to be pointing towards.
There is a broad range of competency and talent flying light helicopters, and that is a level of automation that can make a difference to safety.
It isn't a replacement for good technique, particularly if the technology fails at the wrong moment, and if it doubles the price of the ship then no one will want it.
Maybe Hill can quickly add that as an option to the HX50
Personally, I don't want to fly a single engine helicopter with an automated system that will enter autorotation whenever it thinks there has been an engine failure. Erroneous "engine out" warnings are not unheard of. Anyone remember the Bell engine overspeed protection system? No thanks. The benefits don't outweigh the risks.
My opinion, YMMV.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 446
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From: South East Asia
As we move into the future of rotary wing operations, automation will become more and more a part of the machines we fly. I think this is great, but also a double edge sword. Too much reliance and core skills will slowly disappear - not a good thing IMO. Automation is just another skillset that will need attention while maintaining the ability to take over and hand fly when needed. At least (I hope) this will mean pilots will be needed for a long time yet...
Will it remove some of the flying fun, yes, just as it is more fun to drive a stick shift car than a CVT transmission.
I guess the hardest part to surender will be the "the ability to take over and hand fly when needed" like you said.
but it will probably come once we can qualify it like the rest of it.
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From: Brantisvogan
Joined: Nov 2023
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From: Canada
Helicopters without governors (AKA Hugues 300...) now FADEC controlled engine, is it a double edge sword?, not really as long as the new system that replaces the former pilot task is designed in a way that is so reliable that the former core skill will never be required again.
Will it remove some of the flying fun, yes, just as it is more fun to drive a stick shift car than a CVT transmission.
I guess the hardest part to surender will be the "the ability to take over and hand fly when needed" like you said.
but it will probably come once we can qualify it like the rest of it.
Will it remove some of the flying fun, yes, just as it is more fun to drive a stick shift car than a CVT transmission.
I guess the hardest part to surender will be the "the ability to take over and hand fly when needed" like you said.
but it will probably come once we can qualify it like the rest of it.
Joined: Aug 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: Texas
If you want me to pay for a ride in your helicopter, and you lack the ability, or the confidence in your own ability, to fly an auto when needed then I have no reason to be a passenger in your helicopter nor to pay you for it.
That's the long and the short of it.
HAL can **** right off.
That's the long and the short of it.
HAL can **** right off.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 446
Likes: 100
From: South East Asia
If you want me to pay for a ride in your helicopter, and you lack the ability, or the confidence in your own ability, to fly an auto when needed then I have no reason to be a passenger in your helicopter nor to pay you for it.
That's the long and the short of it.
HAL can **** right off.
That's the long and the short of it.
HAL can **** right off.
When I was younger I used to have a 205 GTI wannabe rally car, I mastered the art shifting gears like the best of them, confidence and ability was 100%.
There we are 25 year later transmissions are not relevant anymore with electric cars.
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Brantisvogan
Even with multiple clutch, sequential gearboxes, the microcontroller is way better and faster at shifting than a human, not considering that a transmission can have 8 or more gears now. That would make manual shifting interesting.
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
During my time 13 Gear manual transmissions on big rigs was common.....now they are automatics.
It did give you something to do and the clutch could become a real. problem in stop and go traffic back ups as the left leg got awfully tired unless you put the gearbox into neutral when coming to a stop.
Once you the truck rolling the !!!!ting could be done without use of the clutch which was left engaged. and was only used in starting and stopping with gear changes being done by use of the !!!!ft lever and Buttons only controlling torque by use of the "Go" pedal.
That technique was known by Drivers as "Floating the Box".
It did give you something to do and the clutch could become a real. problem in stop and go traffic back ups as the left leg got awfully tired unless you put the gearbox into neutral when coming to a stop.
Once you the truck rolling the !!!!ting could be done without use of the clutch which was left engaged. and was only used in starting and stopping with gear changes being done by use of the !!!!ft lever and Buttons only controlling torque by use of the "Go" pedal.
That technique was known by Drivers as "Floating the Box".