International hour building for CAA/EASA CPL

[nextural]

Hi hivemind,

A two part question for you,

a) With an UK CAA PPL(H) can you build hours internationally (e.g. SA, Canada) towards a UK/EASA CPL(H)? Assuming the additional legwork (getting ICAO PPL certification, medical, additional exams), will CAA/EASA authorities except these hours? Heard whispers that CAA/EASA were making it more difficult to do this / may not accept hours built for initial licence issue...

b) If the above is possible, where would you recommend? SA? Canada?

Any advice or thoughts much appreciated.

[rudestuff]

Hours are hours so yes. All fight hours go in the logbook and will definitely be recognised as total time. Training hours are anther matter of course.

Easiest? Probably the US. The FAA will give you a part 61.75 piggyback certificate which is basically a validation of your UK licence.

[Agile]

Reminder:
FAA - any flight with an instructor can be logged PIC
EASA - any flight with an instructor CAN NOT be logged PIC

Beware of hour hungry FAA instructor signing your logbook, so they can bump up their PIC time
the signature kills any chance to log it EASA PIC time for that flight.

[212man]

Originally Posted by nextural

Hi hivemind,

A two part question for you,

a) With an UK CAA PPL(H) can you build hours internationally (e.g. SA, Canada) towards a UK/EASA CPL(H)? Assuming the additional legwork (getting ICAO PPL certification, medical, additional exams), will CAA/EASA authorities except these hours? Heard whispers that CAA/EASA were making it more difficult to do this / may not accept hours built for initial licence issue...

b) If the above is possible, where would you recommend? SA? Canada?

Any advice or thoughts much appreciated.

There is no reference to where the hours are flown in Part FCL: https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/docume...gulation-eu-no

Obviously this is not the case with instruction received.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by Agile

Reminder:
FAA - any flight with an instructor can be logged PIC
EASA - any flight with an instructor CAN NOT be logged PIC

Beware of hour hungry FAA instructor signing your logbook, so they can bump up their PIC time
the signature kills any chance to log it EASA PIC time for that flight.

Good points. If you're planning to fly a lot in both the US and Europe, maybe get extra FAA ratings etc then it's worth spening $20, getting an FAA logbook and an EASA logbook, and logging everything twice using the different rules.
The main difference is that under EASA you're either being trained OR you're PIC. Under FAA you can log PIC for anything you're flying that you're rated on so if you're receiving IFR training you can log that a Dual AND PIC.

[nextural]

Thanks all for the clarity. Everyday I wish I'd been two years earlier to take advantage of the fabled FAA-Easa-CAA triple whammy.

[RMK]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Under FAA you can log PIC for anything you're flying that you're rated on so if you're receiving IFR training you can log that a Dual AND PIC.

I hold both CAA (prior EASA) and full FAA certs separately - not piggyback. I'd advice against ever logging both PIC and Dual in your logbook; you'll cause yourself future problems with other countries. Many countries firmly believe that you are either PIC or Dual; never both. Also the "PUT" UK entry that fixed wing pilots use only confuses people; put that in the remarks/notes column and keep your logbook clean.

I had this argument with South Africa's SACAA; no reason to cause yourself future problems.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by RMK

I hold both CAA (prior EASA) and full FAA certs separately - not piggyback. I'd advice against ever logging both PIC and Dual in your logbook; you'll cause yourself future problems with other countries. Many countries firmly believe that you are either PIC or Dual; never both. Also the "PUT" UK entry that fixed wing pilots use only confuses people; put that in the remarks/notes column and keep your logbook clean.

I had this argument with South Africa's SACAA; no reason to cause yourself future problems.

Hence why I said get a separate FAA logbook...

[jeepys]

What's the main reason for wanting to go abroad, cost or just want to go somewhere different?

[212man]

Many countries firmly believe that you are either PIC or Dual; never both.

Quite understandable I’d say. You’re either PIC or not, although PIC u/s also available.

[212man]

Originally Posted by jeepys

What's the main reason for wanting to go abroad, cost or just want to go somewhere different?

Cost surely? Always been that way. Florida FW hours building was de rigeur in the 80/90s.

And largely worthless, but ticked the boxes. I recall taxiing out in a C152 one night for a night cross country (1998?) and the instructor asked how many hours total and night I had. I said “oh, about 6,500 and 1,500”. His expression was priceless.

[helichris]

Originally Posted by Agile

Reminder:
FAA - any flight with an instructor can be logged PIC
EASA - any flight with an instructor CAN NOT be logged PIC

Beware of hour hungry FAA instructor signing your logbook, so they can bump up their PIC time
the signature kills any chance to log it EASA PIC time for that flight.

An FAA instructor does not have to sign the logbook of pilot getiing instruction to log PIC dual given. This is not complicated: log the time as appropriate to meet the requirements of the country you will operate in. I see no point in two logbooks unless you have something to hide.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by Agile

Reminder:
FAA - any flight with an instructor can be logged PIC
EASA - any flight with an instructor CAN NOT be logged PIC

Beware of hour hungry FAA instructor signing your logbook, so they can bump up their PIC time
the signature kills any chance to log it EASA PIC time for that flight.

You still have to be, "Sole manipulator of the controls" to log PIC in the States, and you don't have to let a CFI sign your book if you're just "time building".

I don't even take my book when I go up with instructors anymore. Just a copy of the last page, my cert, ID, and medical.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by helichris

log the time as appropriate to meet the requirements of the country you will operate in. I see no point in two logbooks unless you have something to hide.

Exactly. So if you plan to operate in the US and Europe, keep 2 logbooks. Lots of people do it and it works. EASA authorities expect to see Dual+PIC=Total, if it doesnt add up they lose their ****. Show that same logbook to the FAA and they don't give you a rating because you don't have enough PIC time...

[helichris]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Exactly. So if you plan to operate in the US and Europe, keep 2 logbooks. Lots of people do it and it works. EASA authorities expect to see Dual+PIC=Total, if it doesnt add up they lose their ****. Show that same logbook to the FAA and they don't give you a rating because you don't have enough PIC time...

It will be difficult to get any EASA PIC time in the US as it's getting harder and harder to rent without getting instruction. When I kept a logbook, I believe it had several empty spots where you could show it as FAA PIC or whatever you wanted to call it. Other than a check ride, I have never had anyone look at my logbook. I quit logging 10 years ago.

[helichris]

Originally Posted by Robbiee

You still have to be, "Sole manipulator of the controls" to log PIC in the States, and you don't have to let a CFI sign your book if you're just "time building".

I don't even take my book when I go up with instructors anymore. Just a copy of the last page, my cert, ID, and medical.

The only time you would need to have your logbook in the aircraft is when you are soloing as a student pilot so you can show the endorsement. It could also just be written on a separate piece of paper.