HAA crash all survived 11th Jan 2022
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He may well have insurance for loss of earnings but the US is unique in the developed world in not having a national and universal health system that is free at point of use. Healthcare is the commonest cause of bankruptcy. No matter how good your US health insurance, there will be limits, co pays and deductibles. There will be network restrictions meaning if the only surgeon or anesthesiologist available is from the 'wrong' network you have to pay. As such it is almost inconceivable he will not face significant uninsured bills. With a social security system little better his family may also struggle with associated costs. I worked in the system and despair at its failures, but I am not making a political point, just pointing out the practicalities and the need for fundraising
Again, not familiar with Air Methods benefits package precisely (but I bet someone on here is), but a typical corporate benefits scenario would see sick leave will pay full salary for 10-14 days, most people will then exhaust their accrued vacation hours again at full salary, typically with 2-4 weeks available, then three months of short term disability at 3/4 rate of pay, and after that 6 months of long term disability at half pay. Certainly we all hope that his injuries are not so severe that he has to reach into the short or long term disability periods.
His cost of insurance is a sunk cost, meaning he's factored it into his budget, and he probably pays somewhere around $500 or $600 a month, with the rest of the costs paid for by his corporate benefits package.
His total out-of-pocket medical insurance cost, which does not include his monthly contribution, will be capped annually, and is unlikely to exceed $10K. It's unlikely he is out of network, but even those costs are capped, typically at 1.5x the in-network cost.
If we assume a month's recuperation (and let's all hope it's much shorter than that), he'll lose vacation time but not salary, and probably max. his out-of-pocket insurance. Let's further assume that his family will have expenses to visit him, etc. So a fundraiser of $15 to 20K would be very helpful, but even without it it should not break the man or his family.
"Obamacare" marketplace insurance for those who are not covered by corporate subsidized, group insurance is expensive, even with government subsidies. That's the situation I'm in. I have the best plan available in my state. It's like paying a mortgage: $2000/mo for me and my wife. $13K max. out-of-pocket annually after that payment. If you want catastrophic-type insurance, i.e. are young, healthy and not worried about anything, you can knock this down to $200 to $600/mo, give or take depending on your income, but max. out-of-pocket is like $24K. For folks living hand-to-mouth a catastrophic event can be financial disaster. Thankfully that should not be the case for the pilot involved in this incident. But, even if you can't pay, if you show up at a US emergency department (aka A&E, casualty, etc.), if it's a public hospital they MUST treat you, they cannot turn you away. It's the follow up care where things get dicey.
This is most obviously a workplace accident; so the pilot and crew should be covered under whichever Workers Compensation scheme is in effect in Pennsylvania. That would cover treatment, rehabilitation and wage replacement.
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Good point! Forgot about that! I've never had a claim myself, nor had an employee have a claim, so didn't think of it. Thank you!
the pilot and crew should be covered under whichever Workers Compensation scheme is in effect in Pennsylvania.
Lets not get into a debate about insurance. Suffice it to say this guy will be financially damaged as well as physically harmed and lets all contribute
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Once again there are limits and exemptions and many workers are excluded, or should I say employers do not have to pay. It comes back to the difference between forms of insurance in europe and that in the US. For all our winges in europe, if the insurer agrees the claim is covered it is paid in full. In the US you rarely get a significant proportion. A couple of years ago my US house was damaged by flooding in a hurricane. I had specific flood insurance and the damages were assessed and agreed before the insurer pointed out co pays and deductions and limitations which exceeded the total claim.
Lets not get into a debate about insurance. Suffice it to say this guy will be financially damaged as well as physically harmed and lets all contribute
Lets not get into a debate about insurance. Suffice it to say this guy will be financially damaged as well as physically harmed and lets all contribute
My late 1/2 sister was a surgical nurse at a very large hospital in the USA.
The hospital did not have a medical insurance plan for its employees.
Now isn’t that strange.
When she was still alive and our Mom passed away and she came to Canada for the funeral. She asked if we were having difficulties paying medical bills. She was very surprised when we looked at her and said: “What Medical Bills?” We, on the other hand, were astounded when she told us how much she and her husband were paying for medical coverage.
When I was an Air Ambulance Pilot in Ontario we used to go to a few scene calls and have folks from the USA get upset saying that a helicopter flight would cost them ridiculous amounts of $$,$$$. We would explain that the Trauma centre was 35 minutes in the helicopter or 2-3 hours over rough roads by Land Ambulance and it was cheaper for the province to use the helicopter and not take an ambulance out of the area for 6 hours so not to worry they would never get a bill in any case. Aside from which we were there already so just relax and enjoy the scenic ride. Dispatch never asked about nationality or insurance of the injured before launching us to “Save Life and Restore Health” The US folks found this unbelievable. It was a great job and wonderful folks to work with. Twin Engine 2 crew helicopter with 2 ALS medics. Our base ran 212s and the “city folks” drove 76s at the time. 24/7/365 coverage.
I hope for a quick and complete recovery for the crew and patients in this sad event.
The hospital did not have a medical insurance plan for its employees.
Now isn’t that strange.
When she was still alive and our Mom passed away and she came to Canada for the funeral. She asked if we were having difficulties paying medical bills. She was very surprised when we looked at her and said: “What Medical Bills?” We, on the other hand, were astounded when she told us how much she and her husband were paying for medical coverage.
When I was an Air Ambulance Pilot in Ontario we used to go to a few scene calls and have folks from the USA get upset saying that a helicopter flight would cost them ridiculous amounts of $$,$$$. We would explain that the Trauma centre was 35 minutes in the helicopter or 2-3 hours over rough roads by Land Ambulance and it was cheaper for the province to use the helicopter and not take an ambulance out of the area for 6 hours so not to worry they would never get a bill in any case. Aside from which we were there already so just relax and enjoy the scenic ride. Dispatch never asked about nationality or insurance of the injured before launching us to “Save Life and Restore Health” The US folks found this unbelievable. It was a great job and wonderful folks to work with. Twin Engine 2 crew helicopter with 2 ALS medics. Our base ran 212s and the “city folks” drove 76s at the time. 24/7/365 coverage.
I hope for a quick and complete recovery for the crew and patients in this sad event.
It would if both throttles were moved (as happened in the other incident). Also there has been one FADEC FAIL in Hungary where the pilot shut down the wrong engine (ie giving himself one remaining engine in manual mode). Or something else.
Double FADEC in cruise day VFR would have just been a diversion to an airport instead of the hospital helipad. We covered those in annual training. Pilot was pretty tight-lipped (understandably) on actual events, "God must have landed that helicopter". Ah...nope, nobody to delegate to when you're the captain. I'll wait for more detail.
There were two occasions in the UK where an accidental EC135 SAS/Autopilot disengage occured with not entirely different results. As the SAS EHA is de-powered the SAS control piston returns to its neutral position and although this is supposed to be damped, the effects can be dramatic - in both cases a significant flare and right roll occured leading both pilots thinking (if memory serves) they had encountered a double engine failure (possibly due to seeing the wrong end of the needles in an 'unusual' position. One rolled over on landing whilst the other was rather more lucky.
Just a thought.
TeeS
Just a thought.
TeeS
The other UK one.
https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/euro...-february-2002
The following is a fatal accident in the USA after a likely SAS cut following loss of SA.
https://www.accidents.app/summaries/...20170525X33813
I do however struggle to see how SAS CUT in good VMC could reach the point of barrel rolling the aircraft. And I have seen some very spirited attempts to mis-handle the aircraft!
https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/euro...-february-2002
The following is a fatal accident in the USA after a likely SAS cut following loss of SA.
https://www.accidents.app/summaries/...20170525X33813
I do however struggle to see how SAS CUT in good VMC could reach the point of barrel rolling the aircraft. And I have seen some very spirited attempts to mis-handle the aircraft!
It appears there were more incidents than I remembered then, Wrench's AAIB report was the first one I was thinking of but I don't think I ever really noticed the second occurrence mentioned in it. I had completely forgotten about Gipsy's AAIB report for G-SPAU and I don't think there was ever an occurrence report for the other one I was thinking of. In my head, SPAU's incident was different in that on top of the loss of SAS/AFCS, it was dark, snowing and the autopilot had done something that was unexpected by the pilot (heading bug defaulting to North). The two I originally mentioned were fully coupled, day VFR, straight and level when the SAS/AFCS stopped playing, the resultant sudden attitude change seems to have been dramatic enough to cause sufficient confusion to prevent either pilot from realising what had actually happened.
I do realise that the subject accident at Drexell Hill may well have been due to a completely different reason.
Cheers
TeeS
I do realise that the subject accident at Drexell Hill may well have been due to a completely different reason.
Cheers
TeeS
Sounds like a wild, wild ride. Back seat crew pinned against the ceiling, then secured patient and strapped them selves in, shut down the engines following the crash, talk about professionalism, and walked out uninjured. Anything to be read into the statement, or might it just be a post crash occurrence? Not familiar with type.
The fenestron flexball cable was found wrapped around the main rotor mast
WAG Could not a hydraulic servo jam produce control problems like this. I realize they are very reliable and in some helicopters double redundant, essentially 2 servos stacked together but …..
Just a vague memory of a discussion during a check on type where there was a servo malfunction scenario that could lead to the shaft jamming and in effect become a solid steal rod attached to one horn of the swashplate creating a new pivot point.
Just a vague memory of a discussion during a check on type where there was a servo malfunction scenario that could lead to the shaft jamming and in effect become a solid steal rod attached to one horn of the swashplate creating a new pivot point.
Sounds like a wild, wild ride. Back seat crew pinned against the ceiling, then secured patient and strapped them selves in, shut down the engines following the crash, talk about professionalism, and walked out uninjured. Anything to be read into the statement, or might it just be a post crash occurrence? Not familiar with type.
If severed in flight, it would have had to have also escaped from the tail rotor drive shaft fairing. Gross mishandling has in the past resulted in main rotors contacting the tail boom, but it would have to have severed the shaft before reaching the cable, which I don’t think happened.
so basically I think this is a post accident artefact.