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Robinson crash in FL

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Robinson crash in FL

Old 5th Jan 2022, 22:02
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Robinson crash in FL

Very sad news
Family of 4 died in a helicopter crash on Des 30th.
not speculating but flying VFR in a Robbie at 8:30 pm after dark in remote ish area





local news report

Last edited by rotorrookie; 5th Jan 2022 at 22:13.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 06:18
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Sad. Just sad.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 08:28
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911 Center received a call from a witness reporting a possible aircraft crash. Several minutes later a second call from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) was received who reported a distress beacon in the same general location.
If this "distress beacon" was a 406 MHz ELT, set-off by its G switch, then this an exceptionally good turnaround time. Unfortunately, in this case, of no help to the pax who would have died on impact.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 12:01
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That is the most totally destroyed helicopter I have ever seen.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 13:19
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Yes, that's not a low speed poor EOL outcome, that's a high speed air/ground interface arrival. RIP
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 18:10
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Originally Posted by Hot and Hi View Post
If this "distress beacon" was a 406 MHz ELT, set-off by its G switch, then this an exceptionally good turnaround time. Unfortunately, in this case, of no help to the pax who would have died on impact.
I wouldn't put too much weight on the accuracy of the time line as reported, or any other details for that matter, as the reporter is clearly clueless.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 20:19
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Originally Posted by lelebebbel View Post
I wouldn't put too much weight on the accuracy of the time line as reported, or any other details for that matter, as the reporter is clearly clueless.
As the timeline and relevant details come from the County Sheriff, the competence of the local reporter hardly matters.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 00:15
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
That is the most totally destroyed helicopter I have ever seen.
No totally destroyed ,there is a long list…..
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 00:26
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Pilot 36, spouse 32, children 8 and 5.
Either added rotorcraft or SEL 6 months ago.
Iím suspecting it was rotorcraft and he was low time helicopter and really low time night.
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT
Date of Issue: 6/9/2021

Ratings:
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
ROTORCRAFT-HELICOPTER

Sad taking your family with you like that.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 01:03
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Originally Posted by B2N2 View Post
Pilot 36, spouse 32, children 8 and 5.
Either added rotorcraft or SEL 6 months ago.
Iím suspecting it was rotorcraft and he was low time helicopter and really low time night.
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT
Date of Issue: 6/9/2021

Ratings:
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
ROTORCRAFT-HELICOPTER

Sad taking your family with you like that.
I donít think he woke up that morning and thought Iím going to take my family on a bad trip, are you a lawyer suggesting legal action?
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 03:31
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post
I donít think he woke up that morning and thought Iím going to take my family on a bad trip, are you a lawyer suggesting legal action?
when familly is onboard, use a diferent standard.
say no to night, say no to any weather,
no deviation from the conservative principles
go arround or cancel fligth before your personal minimum
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 04:00
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Agile, all good advice, but someone has to teach you those lessons, unfortunately gaining a license is merely giving you permission to learn, it doesn't mean you know all there is to know. You just don't know what you don't know, you will never know what you don’t know. There will always be gaps in your knowledge, places where you are absolutely clueless as to your ignorance. You hope to fill the bag of experience without emptying the bag of luck. RIP to a family whose luck ran out before gaining the necessary knowledge or experience.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 07:57
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The timeline suggests they crashed shortly after departure.

https://gilchristcountyjournal.net/2...agic-accident/
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 08:02
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Agile, all good advice, but someone has to teach you those lessons, unfortunately gaining a license is merely giving you permission to learn, it doesn't mean you know all there is to know. You just don't know what you don't know, you will never know what you donít know. There will always be gaps in your knowledge, places where you are absolutely clueless as to your ignorance. You hope to fill the bag of experience without emptying the bag of luck. RIP to a family whose luck ran out before gaining the necessary knowledge or experience.
There often is an underlying cultural issue when looking at these types of accidents involving Robinsons.
Owner/pilot who has a bit of cash and is master of his/her business domain and is unaccustomed to hearing the word "no".
Training that involves younger instructors and a significant age/life experience gradient in the cockpit.
You just end up with new pilots who's perception of their abilities outweighs their actual ability and are completely ill-equipped to identify risk, let alone manage it.

The sensible thing to do is to leave the family at home, acknowledge the learning has just started, and go fly with other experienced pilots who can mentor you through this dangerous time.
Eventually the lightbulb goes on, in most people anyway, and they develop an appreciation for how little they actually know and behave accordingly.

Too many families are needlessly snuffed out in aviation accidents.


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Old 8th Jan 2022, 09:49
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Spot on.



(adding text here to reach the prescribed 10-character minimum.)
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 10:01
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
...The sensible thing to do is to leave the family at home....
Or park the bus before the sun goes down and have another go at first light the next morning.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 10:30
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Absolutely right Bell Ringer sadly, it is a scenario we have seen far too often.

Not too dissimilar to rich guys buying supercars and then writing them off because they didn't know and didn't appreciate the dangers.

In a country where you have to be told that coffee in cups might be hot - how can a low-time pilot be allowed to carry pax without further training?

There should be a mandatory period of flying hours where you can only fly with a more experienced pilot or solo and then have an instructor check-ride before being allowed to carry passengers.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 12:31
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Different standards

Originally Posted by Agile View Post
when familly is onboard, use a diferent standard.
say no to night, say no to any weather,
no deviation from the conservative principles
go arround or cancel fligth before your personal minimum
A responsible pilot should not apply different standards whether he's carrying family or rolls of barbed wire.
Same is valid for personal minima.
But all this comes with personal experience and this involves a lot of flying under supervision be this direct or indirect.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 12:33
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
...There should be a mandatory period of flying hours where you can only fly with a more experienced pilot or solo and then have an instructor check-ride before being allowed to carry passengers.
Totally agree.
The Robinson POH has a safety notice SN44 stating that a newly rated pilot should not carry pax until 100hrs and 20hrs solo. Also only to fly VFR in daylight and keep the first several flights local.
Many smart pilots follow this SN44, some don't and within 1-5 hrs after passing they start flying with pax to places they've never been. (not saying the affected pilot didn't. I'm not aware of his experience).
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 15:57
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The FAA says you are ready when you pass your checkride.

Robinson says what their lawyers tell them to say.

The insurance company is in there somewhere, as well.

Rotorheads will never be satisfied with anything less than a background non-commercial pilots will rarely ever reach.

The reality is, of course, somewhere in between, and is strongly dependent on actual pilot skill and judgement.

It would be interesting to know if this was his first, or fiftieth, off airport night departure. Based on a certificate date of June 2021, it is easy to guess that might have been one of his first.

Occam's Razor also suggests pilot error, but there is no way to know for certain. Perhaps it was some type of catastrophic failure that many like to assign to Robinson helicopters.

The real question is: why do they not teach pilots how to properly and safely do things with helicopters that helicopters actually do? In the US, it is very likely that a newly minted private pilot has made the vast majority of their flights paved runway to paved runway, performed their minimal confined space operations in a farmer's field that was by no means confined, have very little night experience, and have performed zero off airport operations at night.

I am the very definition of the guy "with a bit of cash, master of my business domain, life/experience gradient", etc. I was quite disappointed, sometimes bordering on the appalled, by the instruction I was not receiving. I was lucky in that I mostly (not entirely, of course, and I am ever watchful) knew what I didn't know, and thus recognized the need for more and better instruction, something which ultimately lead me to push on to a commercial rating. How many don't know what they don't know?

And even with a newly minted commercial certificate I was left hanging. For instance, I never flew in rain (in a helicopter), not once, until after I had a commercial rating! Yes, it's bad for the blade paint, but worse for the student. Never once when the weather is at Class G minimums. But I was asked to do both when actually working as a pilot. Thankfully I had my fixed wing training to partially fall back on. My private fixed wing training was much better in some areas. There are certain institutional fears found in helicopter training that are, IMHO, misplaced. VFR night and weather conditions were much more extensively flown in during fixed wing training. This needs to change where primary helicopter instruction is concerned.

And the idea that you should not fly with your family at night is ludicrous. If the weather is reasonably VFR, and the man and machine so certified, this should not be a great challenge if flown paved runway to paved runway. But, certainly, night off-airport op's are next level stuff. I'd be interested to know if anyone here ever received formal training in that outside of the military or public safety/HEMS.
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