RAF announces Puma Replacement plan
Somebody just needs to get a grip and get on with it. "The only thing worse than a bad decision, is no decision".
Those politicians and desk jockeys have been playing this game for all the time I have been flying and will probably continue to do so because there isn't the money to have what we want - or so they keep telling us..
We wanted Blackhawk back in the 80's and we're still waiting.
We wanted Blackhawk back in the 80's and we're still waiting.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Those politicians and desk jockeys have been playing this game for all the time I have been flying and will probably continue to do so because there isn't the money to have what we want - or so they keep telling us..
We wanted Blackhawk back in the 80's and we're still waiting.
We wanted Blackhawk back in the 80's and we're still waiting.
The people making procurement decisions (who get shuffled around every couple of years) likely will never operate in or with the kit they are on the project teams for. The only people that suffer are the end users. Defence industry sounds like a great place to work though from all the career fairs (circuses) I've been to!
But if 'we' were asked and came up with a different solution, we'd just be told we didn't understand the 'bigger picture' and the senior officers who start as pilots and then forget what their job used to be will just say yes to the VSOs and politicians.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
But if 'we' were asked and came up with a different solution, we'd just be told we didn't understand the 'bigger picture' and the senior officers who start as pilots and then forget what their job used to be will just say yes to the VSOs and politicians.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
We wanted Blackhawk back in the 80's and we're still waiting.
I thought the intention was to set up a production run at Yeovil to produce WS70s with the possibility of exports to Europe.
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I’m always cynical when talking about how any govt makes decisions when so many angles are considered (valid or not), but maybe if Australia (hopefully) with good success with H-60M, it will help push UK more in that direction?
Regarding the Australian Blackhawks, does anyone know what Australian specific modifications (if any) were incorporated in their order? I assume since the first aircraft have already arrived that they are pretty close to standard US Army spec, it seems like if they had tried to re-invent the wheel with their order the timeline would have been much longer.
As it stands currently all H-60M in Army spec come hoist/wench, external stores and extended range fuel capable, with additional mission equipment available in kit form, so pretty much a turn key solution for most situations it would seem, and I’m sure the domestic Australian aerospace industry is more than capable tackling any modifications needed in future.
FltMech
Regarding the Australian Blackhawks, does anyone know what Australian specific modifications (if any) were incorporated in their order? I assume since the first aircraft have already arrived that they are pretty close to standard US Army spec, it seems like if they had tried to re-invent the wheel with their order the timeline would have been much longer.
As it stands currently all H-60M in Army spec come hoist/wench, external stores and extended range fuel capable, with additional mission equipment available in kit form, so pretty much a turn key solution for most situations it would seem, and I’m sure the domestic Australian aerospace industry is more than capable tackling any modifications needed in future.
FltMech
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A little searching around shows G-RRTM came back to
the states using registrations N3124B, N70C and N60FH, looks like it was deregistered in 2014 when Brainerd/Firehawk helicopters had it.
I would assume it’s still around but not in use as Brainerd has a lot of H-60s in storage.
FltMech
the states using registrations N3124B, N70C and N60FH, looks like it was deregistered in 2014 when Brainerd/Firehawk helicopters had it.
I would assume it’s still around but not in use as Brainerd has a lot of H-60s in storage.
FltMech
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Well it looks like the Puma replacement may well have been kicked down the road for another three years.
The contract specifically pertains to support for the Puma Mk2 helicopter. The current agreement will be extended “for a period of up to three years – 31 March 2028”. This deal, valued at a substantial £320 million, covers services from 1 April 2025 to 31 March 2028.
So that is $400,320,000.00 at the exchange rate at the moment
Cost of a Blackhawk
So for the three year extension you could have bought 15 of the expensive Blackhawk airframes without support etc..
Stupid isn’t it, no wonder this country is going down the tubes when they make decisions like this!
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/airb...-mod-contract/
..
The Ministry of Defence has released details regarding the extension of a contract with Airbus Helicopters UK Ltd.
This comes from a recent tender notice, labelled as the “Puma HC2 Follow-On Support Arrangement PP3 CF VTN”.The contract specifically pertains to support for the Puma Mk2 helicopter. The current agreement will be extended “for a period of up to three years – 31 March 2028”. This deal, valued at a substantial £320 million, covers services from 1 April 2025 to 31 March 2028.
Cost of a Blackhawk
It's a four-blade twin-engine, medium-lift utility military helicopter that a popular company Sikorsky manufactures for the United States Army. The one unit costs around $3 to $26 million depending on the variant because each variant has its pros and cons.
Stupid isn’t it, no wonder this country is going down the tubes when they make decisions like this!
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/airb...-mod-contract/
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 11th Sep 2023 at 21:43.
Nutty, you must remember `we` don`t know the real `big picture`,which has changed again; I`m sure Rishi promised more `foreign aid` to India,in addition to what we already give them ,in the hope of a `big deal`,and then there are all the schools,hospitals,council buildings suffering from `stoneworm`*,which have to be repaired,as well as some prisons....
`stoneworm`*..reference for those who remember `Last of the Summer Wine`....Howard,etc...
`stoneworm`*..reference for those who remember `Last of the Summer Wine`....Howard,etc...
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I’m always cynical when talking about how any govt makes decisions when so many angles are considered (valid or not), but maybe if Australia (hopefully) with good success with H-60M, it will help push UK more in that direction?
Regarding the Australian Blackhawks, does anyone know what Australian specific modifications (if any) were incorporated in their order? I assume since the first aircraft have already arrived that they are pretty close to standard US Army spec, it seems like if they had tried to re-invent the wheel with their order the timeline would have been much longer.
As it stands currently all H-60M in Army spec come hoist/wench, external stores and extended range fuel capable, with additional mission equipment available in kit form, so pretty much a turn key solution for most situations it would seem, and I’m sure the domestic Australian aerospace industry is more than capable tackling any modifications needed in future.
FltMech
Regarding the Australian Blackhawks, does anyone know what Australian specific modifications (if any) were incorporated in their order? I assume since the first aircraft have already arrived that they are pretty close to standard US Army spec, it seems like if they had tried to re-invent the wheel with their order the timeline would have been much longer.
As it stands currently all H-60M in Army spec come hoist/wench, external stores and extended range fuel capable, with additional mission equipment available in kit form, so pretty much a turn key solution for most situations it would seem, and I’m sure the domestic Australian aerospace industry is more than capable tackling any modifications needed in future.
FltMech
The CH-47F in Aust service are compatible with US Army versions already and tied into the US supply train , only differences being extra comms gear and rotor brake fit, the upcoming AH-64's will be the same with minimal Austalian extras added and once again tied into the US Army supply train.
It's a four-blade twin-engine, medium-lift utility military helicopter that a popular company Sikorsky manufactures for the United States Army. The one unit costs around $3 to $26 million depending on the variant because each variant has its pros and cons.
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Lockheed Martin throwing their hats in the ring with a promise of 40% of all Black Hawk production to be in the UK with some export rights. Would be mad not to.
Lockheed Martin Black Hawk for UK medium fleet
Lockheed Martin Black Hawk for UK medium fleet
300ish S92A built, 5000ish BH built, plus I am pretty sure Uncle Sam picked up much of the R&D costs for the BH. And it works, no working around eurotrash 'concepts' that don't deliver, or supply chains dependent on the French or Italians.
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I am not contradicting anything you're saying, but that doesn't mean you can pick up a Black Hawk for the prices being quoted! The S92 cost is literally for just an airframe - any military BH procurement will include additional through life costs that will escalate the apparent unit costs. This report shows the US assuming a unit cost for H-60s of 53 million USD in 2018 dollars! (Page 18)