R44 crashed Alps

[[email protected]]

A summary would be - LTE doesn't really exist and most encounters were caused by pilots being reluctant to put in sufficient pedal to stop the rotation. There are yaw disturbances caused by the interaction of the MR downwash and other turbulent flows.

There, saved you hours of excruciating reading.....

Well (as with SWP) what the FAA taught me about LTE has kept me alive for almost twenty years.

perhaps because the type of flying you are doing isn't very demanding.......

[[email protected]]

As a check of understanding Robbiee - imagine you are operating at MAUM at high density altitude into a landing site where you can't approach into wind, only crosswind - which way do you take the crosswind, from the left or the right?

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

As a check of understanding Robbiee - imagine you are operating at MAUM at high density altitude into a landing site where you can't approach into wind, only crosswind - which way do you take the crosswind, from the left or the right?

Well, I don't know who MAUM is, but having done crosswind approaches from both sides, I guess I'd just pick the side that has the best view of the chicks on the beach.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

A summary would be - LTE doesn't really exist and most encounters were caused by pilots being reluctant to put in sufficient pedal to stop the rotation. There are yaw disturbances caused by the interaction of the MR downwash and other turbulent flows.

There, saved you hours of excruciating reading.....

perhaps because the type of flying you are doing isn't very demanding.......

Hmm, so again, no new information, just a desire to no longer call it LTE. Yep, that sounds like its worth fifteen pages.

[aa777888]

Hate to say it, Robbiee, you and I are usually on the side of goodness and light, but in this case I'm in total agreement with crab!

Open your mind, read the damn article, and get with the program. You have already passed your oral exam, no need to parrot the FAA textbooks. And do a damn Google search for "MAUM" as it relates to flying. Certainly those on the wrong side of the pond have some differences in jargon, but you are an intelligent guy (seriously, you are, you can't fool us), you really don't need to be spoon-fed this stuff, come on!

[[email protected]]

Robbiee - Maximum All Up Mass FFS...perhaps you prefer MTOW?

The flippancy of your answer leads me to believe you really don't understand the importance of the question in regard to TR performance and yaw control.

aa777888 -

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Robbiee - Maximum All Up Mass FFS...perhaps you prefer MTOW?

The flippancy of your answer leads me to believe you really don't understand the importance of the question in regard to TR performance and yaw control.

aa777888 -

I suppose not. Guess I'm just doomed to spin endlessly.

[[email protected]]

I suppose not. Guess I'm just doomed to spin endlessly.

and if you bothered to read the paper, you would know that doesn't happen either.

It would be quite nice once in a while if the seasoned professional pilots (of which there are a large number on here) were actually listened to by the less experienced when knowledge is being imparted. It's for your good not ours as we have 'mostly' learned from our mistakes and close calls.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

and if you bothered to read the paper, you would know that doesn't happen either.

It would be quite nice once in a while if the seasoned professional pilots (of which there are a large number on here) were actually listened to by the less experienced when knowledge is being imparted. It's for your good not ours as we have 'mostly' learned from our mistakes and close calls.

Sorry, oh wise one, your great secret will just have to remain hidden amongst those fifteen sacred pages.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by Robbiee

Sorry, oh wise one, your great secret will just have to remain hidden amongst those fifteen sacred pages.

Hopefully you are less flippant with the owners of those 22's you have to haggle down to hire. At least there is only 1 other seat if ego runs out.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer

Hopefully you are less flippant with the owners of those 22's you have to haggle down to hire. At least there is only 1 other seat if ego runs out.

Well, those 22 owners never tried to convince me that the textbook was wrong while keeping their great truth buried in a book so dull that it makes my VCR owners manual seem like a Penthouse Forum.

,...but please, more melodramatic responses, I really need the distraction from the insanity that is playing out in my neck of the woods these days.

[ApolloHeli]

Originally Posted by Robbiee

...but please, more melodramatic responses, I really need the distraction from the insanity that is playing out in my neck of the woods these days.

Perhaps that paper could be a timely distraction. You don't have to agree with or believe in the findings, but at least the exposure to the perspective that the paper takes on the 'phenomenon' of LTE will broaden your knowledge and approach to flying challenges in the future. It won't do you any harm, but there's a good chance some thought-provoking will entertain the aviator in you.

[nomorehelosforme]

Robbie,

You have dug yourself a rather large hole and worse than that have fallen head first in it. Maybe it’s time to get off your high horse and actually take on board some of the proven advice that has been offered to you in recent posts... as a pilot show some form of responsibility!

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme

Robbie,

You have dug yourself a rather large hole and worse than that have fallen head first in it. Maybe it’s time to get off your high horse and actually take on board some of the proven advice that has been offered to you in recent posts... as a pilot show some form of responsibility!

"Proven advice"? What?,...you mean, "read our awesome fifteen page dissertation on the great LTE secret",...?

Nah, I think I'll just stay on my high horse,...I can check out a lot of cleavage from up here!

[[email protected]]

Nice attitude, perhaps you should consider another forum since there is nothing professional about your approach to flying it seems.

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Nice attitude, perhaps you should consider another forum since there is nothing professional about your approach to flying it seems.

Such melodrama and smugness,...you must be a delight at the pub.

[[email protected]]

Such melodrama and smugness,...you must be a delight at the pub.

but my smugness and melodrama has kept me alive and flying safely for 38 years where as your gash attitude is far more likely to lead you into problems

I'm sure they love you at the flying club.................

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

but my smugness and melodrama has kept me alive and flying safely for 38 years where as your gash attitude is far more likely to lead you into problems

I'm sure they love you at the flying club.................

Hmm, preferring knowledge I gained from a textbook (knowledge which has kept me from crashing for almost twenty years) over some great secret hidden in some abstract paper I found on the internet, is considered "gash",...?

Know what?,...next beer is on me.

[Torquetalk]

Originally Posted by aa777888

There is plenty of tail rotor authority in the 22

What were the conditions when you had your "LTE" experience?

Great reference paper aa77788.

I think my LTE/unanticipated yaw experience can firmly be placed in the poor aircraft management category as opposed to lack of inherent tail rotor authority. In strong laminar wind I made a lazy clearing turn with right pedal turn and presented the tail rotor directly into wind, with entirely predictable results. Whether there would have been enough authority to reverse the problem is moot, as the first 90 degrees were through so fast, it was clear that a continued turn back into wind was the easiest solution.

The moral of the story was be aware of aircraft limitations and don’t fly daft. I say aircraft limitations because many larger aircraft would have tolerated the same winds without the sudden snap. TR authority is, necessarily related to the aircraft‘s mass and the R22 is a light helicopter.

[Torquetalk]

There is a very good video of an R44 down under that gets into all sorts of trouble due to poor management which was attributed to LTE, but isn't really. From a dozy lack of awareness that the aircraft was running out of power, to pretty much losing control took less than 10 seconds. And under stress, the pilot fought the aircraft almost into the sea, before it flew itself out of what had become vortex ring state. The one thing the pilot didn't do was lower the collective, roll on and get airspeed. Lucky. Very, very lucky.

I can't upload my versions of it. But maybe someone has another format (I have non-accepted MPEG & FLV).