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So, what do you think?

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So, what do you think?

Old 11th Apr 2020, 21:22
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So, what do you think?

Stumbled across this old video and thought they were batshit crazy,...!?

https://youtu.be/jH03stFao4k


Last edited by Senior Pilot; 12th Apr 2020 at 08:23. Reason: Add YouTube
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Old 11th Apr 2020, 21:35
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Ok, I'll bite...

Some greatly executed autos...

What exactly is it you are squeaking and trying to cause a drama about???
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Old 11th Apr 2020, 21:39
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The juice just isn't worth the squeeze to train stuff like that. You'll ball up more machines in training than will be saved in real life.
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Old 11th Apr 2020, 22:06
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In the early 70s we used to do zero-speed autos in Hueys, but we kept zero all the way down, not diving like in the video.

Aim point is between your toes in the chin bubble, go through the normal flare height, and when your @rse takes a bite out of the seat cushion, you pull the collective. Amazingly effective. To make judging the "pull" height easier, one instructor suggested drilling a hole under the collective and poking a broom handle through. When the machine gets down to broomstick height, it automatically pushes the collective up! Simples! Tccchhkk!
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Old 11th Apr 2020, 22:19
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Just did these Monday:

We fly in inhospitable places where often times the only place to go in the event of engine failure is real close, hence we teach what I call "hang time". This is where you bleed off speed in an auto and descend vertically then nose forward to get speed for the flare then touch down. The auto has a very steep profile.

Here are 3 videos in the Huey showing the evolution of autos with a new guy to the Huey.

Start with straight ins:


Then move on to a 180 auto:


Then transition to a 180 with zero speed for the turn:


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Old 11th Apr 2020, 22:21
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Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
Ok, I'll bite...

Some greatly executed autos...

What exactly is it you are squeaking and trying to cause a drama about???
Hmm, no quams about practicing zero speed autos in an R22 from 100'? I wish you were my insurance adjuster!
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 06:44
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What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hard !
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 08:28
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Originally Posted by Robbiee View Post
Hmm, no quams about practicing zero speed autos in an R22 from 100'? I wish you were my insurance adjuster!
That is not a zero speed autorotation in that video.
Get your facts right.
It's an autorotation that is initiated from what seems to be a high hover at 100 feet.

He dives down, gains speed, and carries out a normal autorotation.

A zero speed autorotation is something completely different.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 09:17
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Hueyracer -

Gordy - the only problem with bringing the speed back so far is that to subsequently achieve a sensible flare speed, you are accelerating towards the ground and increasing your RoD - probably fine in a Huey since you have so much energy in the head but it might not be suitable for a robbie. EOLs are the sport of kings though
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 09:40
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Originally Posted by Hughes500 View Post
What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hard !
far less chance of screwing the pooch and flipping it on asphalt.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
far less chance of screwing the pooch and flipping it on asphalt.


..........
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:03
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Originally Posted by hueyracer View Post
That is not a zero speed autorotation in that video.
Get your facts right.
It's an autorotation that is initiated from what seems to be a high hover at 100 feet.

He dives down, gains speed, and carries out a normal autorotation.

A zero speed autorotation is something completely different.
Nothing wrong with my facts. That is a zero speed auto.

,...and its not just me who is calling it that, but the super awesome pilot who made the video as well.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:56
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The thread starter's video states at the beginning that it is a "partial engine failure" therefore no problem........................
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 16:28
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Originally Posted by hueyracer View Post
That is not a zero speed autorotation in that video.
Get your facts right.
Agreed. Zero airspeed is exactly that.
Originally Posted by Hughes500 View Post
What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hard !
As others have said...not a good idea to go to grass, especially low timers...there is an article written by Shawn Coyle on this after visiting a "well known" flight school and I showed him many aircraft remains that had come into trouble doing touchdowns to grass.....
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Gordy - the only problem with bringing the speed back so far is that to subsequently achieve a sensible flare speed, you are accelerating towards the ground and increasing your RoD - probably fine in a Huey since you have so much energy in the head but it might not be suitable for a robbie. EOLs are the sport of kings though
Indeedy...have not flown a robbie in over 20 years....these are advanced autos, not for that airframe.
Originally Posted by Robbiee View Post
Nothing wrong with my facts. That is a zero speed auto....and its not just me who is calling it that, but the super awesome pilot who made the video as well.
You make me laugh....
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 16:58
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post

You make me laugh....
I know,...
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 20:42
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You make me laugh....
because a zero speed auto doesn't mean you start from zero speed........a zero speed auto could mean you have zero IAS all the way to touch down (ie vertical) relying on just the collective pull at the bottom or that you reduce speed to zero for the actual touchdown using the normal flare technique - neither of which occur in the video.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 20:47
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However, after many years of EOLs to grass by UK Mil training (and that is many thousands of EOLs) and only one (to my knowledge) problem caused by the surface, I think the grass is a pretty good option - maybe you just have the wrong sort of grass in the US
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 21:08
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
However, after many years of EOLs to grass by UK Mil training (and that is many thousands of EOLs) and only one (to my knowledge) problem caused by the surface, I think the grass is a pretty good option - maybe you just have the wrong sort of grass in the US
Crab, as a Brit living and traveling between both countries one of the first things I couldnít get my head around was the grass in the US, you have Bermuda grass, zoysia and fescue. Iím sure some varieties are probably more suitable than others for a helicopter landing! As opposed to what we have in the UK called grass.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 22:05
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And The Cousins call it "Sod" anyway, so it must be bad.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 22:26
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I’ve often thought “Sod it” after one of my landings...

ISTR that in my day RAF rules said that a zero speed auto should be converted to a VF EOL at 300’ agl. I know we used to carry out constant attitude EOLs to the ground at 40kts, which was about the minimum speed that the ASI needle showed any movement, finished off by use of collective only. I think that in many hells, true zero speed to the ground would result in a rather higher ROD with fewer options and more potential for things going wrong. Maybe Teeteringhead can remember?
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