Hill Helicopters HX50

[VerticalPilot]

Ok Bell_Ringer, the negative response to anything Hill Helicopters is doing or has already done for light helicopters is at best hilarious. Cars, airplanes and boats (at all price ranges) have (in the last 50 years) advanced in quality, performance and value WITH THE EXCEPTIONAL OF LIGHT PISTON/TURBINE HELICOPTERS AT A PRICE AVIATORS CAN BETTER AFFORD TO BUY AND PROPERLY MAINTAIN.
Entrepreneurial game changers like Dr Jason Hill are rare and succeed because they properly educate themselves and bring aboard experienced technicians to help guide the process. AND ignore the “things can never change “naysayers”.
Armchair naysayer spew words from their keyboard that challenges the common sense of those who do not believe “the status quo” should not change.. Come on over to the side who and/or fly a 40 year old helicopter which is long past due to be engineered better, built the latest space age metals in a modern manufacturing plant and able to bring about reasonable pricing.. In America, general aviation’s downturn began when legacy builders of general aviation aircraft mostly switched over to pipe line suppliers who kept the status quo which was profit at the expense innovative prospects.
The transparency of what Jason Hill has given deposit holders was more than worth the price of admission!

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by VerticalPilot

Cars, airplanes and boats (at all price ranges) have (in the last 50 years) advanced in quality, performance and value

If you can't tell the difference between those markets and aviation, then I can see why you are gladly consuming Hill's coolaid, it tends to diminish credibility.
The number of faults in modern vehicles has also been increasing significantly, though if you are used to American vehicles then I can appreciate the view.
Consumer tech is not suitable for reliable and safe flying, if his machine gets produced in our lifetime, it will just be a matter of time before it too starts culling a few pilots.
I have seen the sportscar mentality in private pilots, it tends to end with people being scraped off the countryside.

It's all moot anyway, since it only exists in fantasy and it has a long, long way to go even after his "revolutionary" engine manages to turn without consuming itself.

[212man]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer

If you can't tell the difference between those markets and aviation, then I can see why you are gladly consuming Hill's coolaid, it tends to diminish credibility.
The number of faults in modern vehicles has also been increasing significantly, though if you are used to American vehicles then I can appreciate the view.
Consumer tech is not suitable for reliable and safe flying, if his machine gets produced in our lifetime, it will just be a matter of time before it too starts culling a few pilots.
I have seen the sportscar mentality in private pilots, it tends to end with people being scraped off the countryside.

It's all moot anyway, since it only exists in fantasy and it has a long, long way to go even after his "revolutionary" engine manages to turn without consuming itself.

yes, naive in the extreme

[[email protected]]

And for all the grandstanding about being revolutionary and ground breaking, Hill is offering about 5% extra performance over the Gazelle which was developed in the 1960s.

[jellycopter]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

And for all the grandstanding about being revolutionary and ground breaking, Hill is offering about 5% extra performance over the Gazelle which was developed in the 1960s.

It rather depends upon how you measure performance doesn't it?

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by jellycopter

It rather depends upon how you measure performance doesn't it?

I am sure Hill is measuring it by the number of people he convinces to part with their money.

He isn't fundamentally reinventing the turbine engine, his revolution is to make it himself and, allegedly, cheaply.
There is little in his revolution that will make the package produce twice the power at half the fuel and twice the lifespan, which seems to be the promise (exaggerating, but you get the gist).
We will find out soon enough when he manages to get his revolution, errr, revolving

[helihub]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Hill is offering about 5% extra performance over the Gazelle which was developed in the 1960s.

He's saying 5% in public because it's easily achievable. He doesn't want to be quoted on what he personally thinks will be achieved. That said, I was the first industry journalist to interview him back in November 2020 (see Exclusive interview – Jason Hill, founder of Hill Helicopters) and in that he refers to the Bell 533 as a great example of innovation being seemingly ignored by an OEM

In March 1963, the Bell 533 achieved a straight-and-level speed of 278kmh, 25% better than the standard UH-1B, yet the benefits were never rolled out – fared-in rotor cuffs and mast, skid legs that weren’t tubular and so on. Not only were they never applied to the Huey, but they have never been meaningfully applied in small helicopter design.

No, I'm not saying he will achieve 25% better speed than any particular helicopter, but this just gives an insight to how he thinks.

[206 jock]

Originally Posted by helihub

He's saying 5% in public because it's easily achievable. He doesn't want to be quoted on what he personally thinks will be achieved. That said, I was the first industry journalist to interview him back in November 2020 (see Exclusive interview – Jason Hill, founder of Hill Helicopters) and in that he refers to the Bell 533 as a great example of innovation being seemingly ignored by an OEM

No, I'm not saying he will achieve 25% better speed than any particular helicopter, but this just gives an insight to how he thinks.

With all due respect, you also reported in June 2021 (so Covid was a 'thing' then) that Hill were on target to fly in 2022 and deliver in 2023. So there's not much forensic examination of Hill's claims going on, is there?
https://www.helihub.com/2021/06/15/o...nd-deliveries/

[CGameProgrammerr]

He has hinted in a recent video that he expects it to do more than 140 knots, but 140 is the minimum target cruise speed.

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by jellycopter

It rather depends upon how you measure performance doesn't it?

Exactly. Will be interesting to see how popular the Guimbal G5 will be once pre-orders are accepted.

[VerticalPilot]

Lots of anxious Deposit holders are breathing easier now that 1st run of Hill’s GT50 is upon us. For these folks Hill’s progress has evolved perfectly.. Develop and build the fuselage, safety and comfort based subsystems before figuring the power plant needed. A proper helicopter with outstanding performance attracted exactly the consumer Jason Hill desired to target.
The pace was aways steady, detailed to precision and transparent beyond expectation. Most agreeably the time table slipped as the plan went from building a prototype proof of concept to within months attracting 1,000 plus people anxious to invest in Jason’s HX50 development thru non-refundable deposits.
Mr Hill being true to his nature postponed development to build and equip a state of the art manufacturing plant. Undoubtedly, Hill’s personal risk will serve to put a fantastic HX50 in the hands of deposit holders sooner than reasonably expected.
Yes, it has been most satisfying & thrilling to have been part of this journey from day one.

[Winemaker]

Lots of anxious Deposit holders are breathing easier now that 1st run of Hill’s GT50 is upon us.

Has he run an engine? I thought this month was the motor/generator unit test.

[Agile]

Originally Posted by VerticalPilot

Undoubtedly, Hill’s personal risk will serve to put a fantastic HX50 in the hands of deposit holders sooner than reasonably expected.

in your expression, that already sounds like we are home free.

There is still a long road to the whole thing flying. As for "Hill’s personal risk", there is none!, sure if it blows up his reputation will suffer, but he will still have the accumulated know how, which more often than not find itself another commercial opportunity in one form or another. If it completes itself to successful delivery, (and no large design miss recall or regulatory hurdle comes in the way) he inherits an organization with no bank debt nicely and generously boot strapped by its customers. That is how it works in R&D, there is no dead body.

[megan]

That is how it works in R&D, there is no dead body

Test flying comes under the R & D heading and there is plenty of opportunity for dead bodies.

[VerticalPilot]

Differing opinions are always welcome As with any significantly new direction in aviation; there will always be arm chair “keyboard” experts phoo phooing anyone who tries along side those with experience and reflection who agree modernization and/or reasonable cost are sorely needed. Last but not least, we have most folks who take a wait and see attitude before spending their money. Lucky for Hill customers, they watch a fellow like Jason Hill properly gain the education needed, gain the practical experience of what is out there before he publicly brings about the goal of his own life long dream. Entrepreneurs of this caliber ignore the “it can’t be improved upon crowd”.
History is being made and unfortunately good stewards of aviation are missing on it.

[CGameProgrammerr]

Originally Posted by Winemaker

Has he run an engine? I thought this month was the motor/generator unit test.

This month is supposed to be the first run of the starter-generator, which is basically the entire engine except for the freewheeling output drive shaft.

[topradio]

Originally Posted by VerticalPilot

A proper helicopter with outstanding performance attracted exactly the consumer Jason Hill desired to target.

What was that then, one with more money than sense?

[mechpowi]

Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr

This month is supposed to be the first run of the starter-generator, which is basically the entire engine except for the freewheeling output drive shaft.

Usually there is a gas generator and a power turbine between the starter-generator and the output drive. Even if the starter-generator would motor the gas generator, I wouldn’t count that as a engine run.