Hill Helicopters HX50
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 239
Likes: 50
From: San Diego, CA
Yes, they're a month behind their previous estimate, as I said. Hopefully runs in June. Then they have to do the free turbine unit and test it once they've nailed down the testing of the starter-generator, and they also have to do the transmission and flight controls, although that can be easily tested without the engine using an electric motor, but I don't think they've done it yet.
Joined: Jun 2012
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 369
Likes: 77
From: SE of there
Yes, they're a month behind their previous estimate, as I said. Hopefully runs in June. Then they have to do the free turbine unit and test it once they've nailed down the testing of the starter-generator, and they also have to do the transmission and flight controls, although that can be easily tested without the engine using an electric motor, but I don't think they've done it yet.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 16
Likes: 14
From: FL
Originally poster by 206 Jock
Yep, he just has to do everything before he runs out of money.
His engineering - led presentation leads people to believe that the finish is in sight. Reality is very much different.
A quick glance through the answers to FAQs on his website is interesting. He reckons his GT50 will cost 50k USD per unit. This compares with existing models at 500k. That is dangerous logic. If you weigh in your typical car, it contains about 300 USD of materials, but that's not what it costs!
206 Jock…Where did you ever get the figure 50K USD? Totally fake information.
Yep, he just has to do everything before he runs out of money.
His engineering - led presentation leads people to believe that the finish is in sight. Reality is very much different.
A quick glance through the answers to FAQs on his website is interesting. He reckons his GT50 will cost 50k USD per unit. This compares with existing models at 500k. That is dangerous logic. If you weigh in your typical car, it contains about 300 USD of materials, but that's not what it costs!
206 Jock…Where did you ever get the figure 50K USD? Totally fake information.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 438
Likes: 2
From: Derby
From their FAQs:
We determined early in the program that using an existing engine was not a viable option due to cost. The list price of a standard 500hp gas turbine engine is approximately $500,000. In contrast, our proprietary GT50 engine costs less than 10% of that figure to manufacture.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
I wonder what the list price of the GT50 is going to be - he claims less than $50K to manufacture it but then compares that to the list price for one off the shelf from other manufacturers - a bit of deliberate apples and oranges going on there...
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 54
Likes: 2
From: Lampeter
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I wonder what the list price of the GT50 is going to be - he claims less than $50K to manufacture it but then compares that to the list price for one off the shelf from other manufacturers - a bit of deliberate apples and oranges going on there...
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 65
From: South of UK
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
We have seen how much cash he has been burning.
It is somewhat convenient to exclude all of that time, effort and R&D from the cost calculation and then compare it to an engine where those costs aren't just included, but also have gone through the extensive work to certify it.
You would need to be incredibly naive to take all the superficial marketing speak that Hill regurgitates at face value.
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
Likes: 926
From: Den Haag
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 65
From: South of UK
As I mentioned there are a number of answers to FAQs that piqued my interest. I flagged one about the 5000 hours that resulted in a mysterious change a couple of days later.
Here's another. On a question about price....
"As we continue to go through development, we will always adjust the aircraft’s price. As we go into production and beyond we will be adjusting the price for inflation. As we approach production, we will also be increasing the base price to reflect market conditions and the value proposition that we offer." So that's clear. To someone Probably.. Let's see if this gets changed.
But if I had a signed contract, I would be triple checking the Ts and C's!
*Jason Hill Wishful Thinking Kool Aid
Joined: Jan 2012
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 57
From: UK
I wonder if that comment isn’t closer to the mark than you think. After all the UK is concerned that all current small turbines that would power the large number of drones supposedly needed are not domestically built…
Joined: Oct 2006
Aviation Qualifications: A&P
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 270
From: USA
With all the new turbine development going on at the legacy engine OEMs for the hybrid electrical propulsion market, the GT50 would definitely fit into that market given its simplified design and lower weight.
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
Latest news articles from the Hill site:
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...y-for-assembly (previously discussed from the youtoob video).
A humble and balanced piece on the Hill story
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...the-hill-story
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...y-for-assembly (previously discussed from the youtoob video).
A humble and balanced piece on the Hill story
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...the-hill-story
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 880
Likes: 225
From: Australia
...A humble and balanced piece on the Hill story
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...the-hill-story
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/blog...the-hill-story
Given the theme of many posts on this thread, was interesting to read part of the second link:
Hill Helicopters has "no bank debt, no venture capital, and is further supported by Innovate UK grant funding. That financial independence has allowed Hill to prioritise engineering decisions over investor timelines, a rarity in modern aerospace".
Depositors are in some respects investors. So hopefully they remain patient and the funds stretch through and beyond the development period.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 16
Likes: 14
From: FL
As Hill rounds the corner (few more weeks) and into aviation history; the GT50 light turbine is on track to fire up; it’s also historic for his use of Vertical intergration building in low cost of mfg not to forget the only small turbine built in the UK. An astute mind can see an investment of UK funded grants towards Jason’ R&D expenditures is about to pay huge dividends in military applications..
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
As Hill rounds the corner (few more weeks) and into aviation history; the GT50 light turbine is on track to fire up; it’s also historic for his use of Vertical intergration building in low cost of mfg not to forget the only small turbine built in the UK. An astute mind can see an investment of UK funded grants towards Jason’ R&D expenditures is about to pay huge dividends in military applications..
No military will be spending money on this dream. Rotorcraft are very last decade and his vision is unlikely to meet any of their requirements.