COASTGUARD AW189 WRECKS A BACK GARDEN
Thread Starter
COASTGUARD AW189 WRECKS A BACK GARDEN
A coastguard helicopter did considerable damage to a back garden near a hospital helipad near Portsmouth, the property owner, a retired navy engineer is not happy as this isn't the first time he has had damage caused by downdraft.
Stuart and Cassie Ellins were left distraught after their back garden was 'turned upside-down' by the downdraft of the Coastguard aircraft launching from the nearby helipad.
An investigation has now been launched and other residents on the street - where average house prices are £450,000 - say 'serious questions need to be answered.'
Mr and Mrs Ellins' are fearful for their own safety and feel 'sick' when they think about what might have happened if one of their grandchildren had been in the garden at the time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ys-garden.html
Retired Royal Navy engineer and his magistrate wife are 'furious' after Coastguard helicopter taking off from hospital destroys their garden
A retired Royal Navy engineer and his magistrate wife are 'furious' after an emergency services helicopter blew down their garden wall.Stuart and Cassie Ellins were left distraught after their back garden was 'turned upside-down' by the downdraft of the Coastguard aircraft launching from the nearby helipad.
An investigation has now been launched and other residents on the street - where average house prices are £450,000 - say 'serious questions need to be answered.'
Mr and Mrs Ellins' are fearful for their own safety and feel 'sick' when they think about what might have happened if one of their grandchildren had been in the garden at the time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ys-garden.html
I expect the e-goat and arrse headlines will read "Matelot Fails FOD Check".
Both the Qinetiq Post Implementation Report on the UK SAR Helicopter Service contract and an EASA NPA have made references to the state of the landing facilities at "Public Interest Sites" of which this is an example. We have known since 31st January 1953 that the helicopter was to become an important tool for saving lives but we still struggle to adapt our national infrastructure to accommodate it successfully.
Both the Qinetiq Post Implementation Report on the UK SAR Helicopter Service contract and an EASA NPA have made references to the state of the landing facilities at "Public Interest Sites" of which this is an example. We have known since 31st January 1953 that the helicopter was to become an important tool for saving lives but we still struggle to adapt our national infrastructure to accommodate it successfully.
A slight adjustment in flight path to avoid overflight of the homes would be an easy solution. I cannot believe they flew over the homes in the first place.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 419 Likes
on
221 Posts
The solution is the provision of proper helipads in less congested areas.
Thread Starter
The reason it is difficult is because of the lack of brain power applied during the planning and design. When people were building hospitals in the UK 30 or 40 years ago it was already apparent that the helicopter was playing an ever-increasing role in the transport of critically ill persons. NHS management, architects, civil engineers, local authority planners and politicians should have been able to start getting a grip of this way back then. But here we are, 66 years after the first dedicated SAR squadron was formed, with world-class SAR and dozens of air ambulance aircraft, unable to ensure best use of these aircraft to create the best outcome for the patients.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 419 Likes
on
221 Posts
What Jim said! There remains a sad legacy of misunderstanding of the capabilities and limitations of rotary wing aircraft, by those very organisations that could best benefit from their use.
Surely a quick, vertical departure would ensure the downwash stays clear?
If the garden was directly downwind from the pad and they stayed in a low hover for a while then it could possibly be an issue but I don't believe they flew low over the garden - the public are notoriously bad at judging heights where aircraft are concerned, especially when they are trying to over-egg a complaint which is probably more about noise than anything else.
If the garden was directly downwind from the pad and they stayed in a low hover for a while then it could possibly be an issue but I don't believe they flew low over the garden - the public are notoriously bad at judging heights where aircraft are concerned, especially when they are trying to over-egg a complaint which is probably more about noise than anything else.
IT`s probably a good job it wasn`t an 11 tonne Seaking . then...The brickwork seems to have been made by an amateur,compared to the fencework further down the garden...As to his grandchildren,they should be briefed to `get indoors` if
a helo is nearby/ appears...
Likewise,I would expect the helo crew to use proper techniques on t/o and landing to minimise noise and downdraught.
Look at `streetview` and obviously it`s `upmarket,with Mercs/suv`s galore/double garages/multiple cars in driveways...the thought that a helo may have to be using the hospital on a lifesaving mission ,literally` goes over their heads`...!!r
A good EX-Naval officer should remember being taught to "Lash-up and stow", but then he may have only operated on a" stone frigate..."...
Rather like ex-RAF Officers buying houses near airfields,and then complaining about the noise....!!!!
later...perhaps he should go down to the CG Helo unit and have an `amicable discussion` about the situation ,rather that `whingeing` to the Press........
a helo is nearby/ appears...
Likewise,I would expect the helo crew to use proper techniques on t/o and landing to minimise noise and downdraught.
Look at `streetview` and obviously it`s `upmarket,with Mercs/suv`s galore/double garages/multiple cars in driveways...the thought that a helo may have to be using the hospital on a lifesaving mission ,literally` goes over their heads`...!!r
A good EX-Naval officer should remember being taught to "Lash-up and stow", but then he may have only operated on a" stone frigate..."...
Rather like ex-RAF Officers buying houses near airfields,and then complaining about the noise....!!!!
later...perhaps he should go down to the CG Helo unit and have an `amicable discussion` about the situation ,rather that `whingeing` to the Press........
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 419 Likes
on
221 Posts
Likewise,I would expect the helo crew to use proper techniques on t/o and landing to minimise noise and downdraught.
The problem is the vertical cat A profile itself for the 189. A slow climb to 110ft TDP does not take into account the carnage going on beneath you. This is not the first and it won't be the last especially if we are always expecting a donk to stop at a critical point. Maybe we need to look at the reliability of modern engines versus damage created due to take off profiles.
PC1 profiles are fixed by the RFM and PC1 profiles are demanded for hostile/congested HLSs by CAP 999. The operators hands are tied by the OEM and the regulator.
"Any new hospital landing site that had not been in use before 28.10.2014 is expected to be designed with due considerations to the Air OPS helicopter performance rules. New hospital landing sites are not eligible to any derogation."
EASA proposal, currently in process.
EASA proposal, currently in process.
Yes I appreciate the regs but perhaps AW need to invest more time into developing a better cat A profile. The 139 didn't have a confined area profile until some years into production.
sycamore wrote what I also think, a normal autumn storm could also blown away that brick walls, which seems to have had no proper fundament at all...
As an engineer he should have done better...
As an engineer he should have done better...
Thread Starter
Flying Bull, no criticism but possibly lost in translation, I’m sure you meant foundation. If anyone cares to read the comments at the end of the news article there is much criticism of his DIY Landscape that fell to pieces with some helicopter downdraft, there have been numerous storms and gales recently along that coast... shoody workmanship might be at fault, just saying.
The photos show a wooden paling fence between brick piers. Each brick piers sitting on a single concrete paver approx 500x250 mm. The pavers sitting on top of an artificial timber deck. No foundation into the ground at all for the piers.
The helicopter was not this issue, their grand children and the public were at risk with that fence all the time. As the piers were just sitting on a paver, someone could have leaned on a pier and it could fall over.
The helicopter was not this issue, their grand children and the public were at risk with that fence all the time. As the piers were just sitting on a paver, someone could have leaned on a pier and it could fall over.
I would be interested to know how many noise complaints come from this person and his neighbours - I suspect quite a lot - and I'm sure they will have been told that the helicopters are performing vital lifesaving duties and they should just suck it up.
So it comes as no surprise if they try to use this 'devastation' to either gain financial recompense or try to force the MCA/NHS to use a different landing site - right up until one of their friends or family needs urgent transport to A&E.
I am not up to speed with CAP 999 but do they have to use PC1 profiles when they only have the crew on board? ISTR it used to talk about that not being required until the departure from the rescue scene (ie with cas on board) but I haven't operated to it so I could well be mistaken.
So it comes as no surprise if they try to use this 'devastation' to either gain financial recompense or try to force the MCA/NHS to use a different landing site - right up until one of their friends or family needs urgent transport to A&E.
I am not up to speed with CAP 999 but do they have to use PC1 profiles when they only have the crew on board? ISTR it used to talk about that not being required until the departure from the rescue scene (ie with cas on board) but I haven't operated to it so I could well be mistaken.
I can answer my own question as 999 (if 2014 is the current edition) mandates PC1 when operating to and from a heliport at a hospital that is located in a hostile congested environment. - As Detgnome correctly posted - and only allows PC2 at a SAR operating site.