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Sikorsky S-92 and Leonardo AW101 VVIP.

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Sikorsky S-92 and Leonardo AW101 VVIP.

Old 3rd Dec 2019, 16:43
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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With a few photos from Chopper2004 in this thread
Robbo Jock is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 00:40
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rigoletto View Post
Hello!

DISCLAMER: I don't know a thing about helicopters, and if I'm posting in the right place of this forums.

I was instructed to gather some initial general information about running costs, reliability and dependability between Sikorsky S-92[1] and Leonardo AW101 VVIP. This is about private board members and executives needs... in Europe. So, would you mind to share some information in regards to this subjects.

Thank you.

[1] apparently there is a revision coming in 2021 - S-92B.
Why would anyone with any brains ask someone with admitttedly no knowledge or understanding of helicopter operations to gather information aout two widely differing helicopter types with totally different operating requirements and costs.
What kind of reliable report would that person or organization expect.
Is that the way they normally run their business.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 00:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RotorBunny View Post
After experience of flying both; the S-92 beats the AW101 hands down with regards to reliability and serviceability. Of course the caveat is the quality of the technical team tasked with the maintenance of such glorious beasts!
Did you get to that conclusion after flying the Merlin for three years in the Royal Navy then switching to a higher paying civilian job with widely different on service requirements?
Funny how only Eurocrap stuff is in your profile.
Let's talk about it, bring it on.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 01:35
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
What kind of reliable report would that person or organization expect.
.
Come on Tottigol, anyone thatís looking to spend $15-$25 million on a VVIP Helicopter knows that this is the best place to start, the poor guy must be multi tasking on a daily basis between RollsRoyce/Bentley, Ferrari/Lamborghini and now has this thrown in his lap....
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 03:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post


Come on Tottigol, anyone thatís looking to spend $15-$25 million on a VVIP Helicopter knows that this is the best place to start, the poor guy must be multi tasking on a daily basis between RollsRoyce/Bentley, Ferrari/Lamborghini and now has this thrown in his lap....
Quite understandable after all..
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 03:16
  #26 (permalink)  
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It looks like they are just interested on that two models. I say something if they change their minds on the future.

Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
Why would anyone with any brains ask someone with admitttedly no knowledge or understanding of helicopter operations to gather information aout two widely differing helicopter types with totally different operating requirements and costs.
What kind of reliable report would that person or organization expect.
Is that the way they normally run their business.
Let me answer you with another question. :-)

How do you buy a ship if you never bought one before and you are not in the maritime industry? This happens with port business who often don't know a thing about maritime.

You start getting someone who knows about the construction and operation of ships for the particular mission you need. This is not simple because you don't know the market, and then who can be trusted or not.
I mean, ever the best ship builders and yards in the world can build a ship that will sink at launch, specially when we are talking about new/custom hulls - and you lose not just the nominal value of your investment but also 2-3 years of construction.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 12:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
Did you get to that conclusion after flying the Merlin for three years in the Royal Navy then switching to a higher paying civilian job with widely different on service requirements?
Funny how only Eurocrap stuff is in your profile.
Let's talk about it, bring it on.
Thanks for your valuable reply to this thread and I appreciate your opinion on my experience; I'm sure rigoletto also greatly appreciates your contribution to this thread.
8 years EH101 (or Merlin as it was), 4 years Super Puma (332 & 225), 3 years S92. I have updated my profile just for you!
My opinion is from my personal experiences alone, it might differ from your opinion, and that's OK.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 14:01
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
Why would anyone with any brains ask someone with admitttedly no knowledge or understanding of helicopter operations to gather information aout two widely differing helicopter types with totally different operating requirements and costs.
What kind of reliable report would that person or organization expect.
Is that the way they normally run their business.
Sounds like either a member of the Senior Management Team or the Board of any of the major offshore operators these days.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 19:55
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Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
Let's talk about it, bring it on.
After @RotorBunny has shown his hand can we now see yours?

henra is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2019, 22:23
  #30 (permalink)  
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Hi,

just to better explain, the priorities are (in more or less this order): reliability/safety (best possible track record), moderated/long range/autonomy, reasonable large internal space (at least 8 but preferentially 12 persons, and if possible one cabin crew), maintenance costs and easiness (good/ready vendor support), purchase price. That will not be supposed to fly everyday but to fly for several hours when needed, what may include flying over the sea (seems a relevant requirement to helicopters).

The underling objective is to substitute trains, airplanes/jets and boats on some medium distances with a more ready available solution.

Years ago we substituted flying in favor of trains in several cases because we found out this is in practice faster by train then flying. A airplane/jet is of course faster than a train but we can get to the station on time, board the train and go (same when arriving but on the contrary), while in a airport there are all those process, security checks, and still wait to take-off and later land, and more security checks etc.

Then, in reality this is all about logistics.

The Mi 38 look interesting but seems to be a relatively new aircraft, and Russian equipment (in general) tends to be complicated to maintain in western countries.

I am not replying to every post because I don't have anything to add, but I am reading everything. ;-)

I quite appreciate your help.

Thank you.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 23:19
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rigoletto View Post
H

A airplane/jet is of course faster than a train but we can get to the station on time, board the train and go (same when arriving but on the contrary), while in a airport there are all those process, security checks, and still wait to take-off and later land, and more security checks etc.

Then, in reality this is all about logistics.

.
Please correct me if Iím wrong, surely your client travels by private jet? In my limited experience of private jet travel In Europe and the USA I have never encountered the problems you mentioned regarding the airport process. Even when traveling commercial these processes can be pretty seamless, Iím sure you know the process!


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Old 7th Dec 2019, 01:00
  #32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post
Please correct me if Iím wrong, surely your client travels by private jet? In my limited experience of private jet travel In Europe and the USA I have never encountered the problems you mentioned regarding the airport process. Even when traveling commercial these processes can be pretty seamless, Iím sure you know the process!
Not private jets but regular commercial ones. Private jets would not really make sense for these routes (far easier to simple buy a train/jet ticket, and the distances are too short to make sense buying one) and would not really solve the problem either because we would still need to go to airport (which is not really close - about 1 and a half hour by car), and ever if the process would be simpler that would not be as ready as having a helicopter on site - this is a large industrial facility (port) and we already have a helipad around too (a small hangar could be constructed if necessary), and our regular destinies in this context are in general other similar facilities. :-)

Private jets are used from time to time, usually to Asia and South America, and when the trips are short in time (couple/few days), specially when there would have a need to go to more than one country/place in a short period of time (couple/few days). People in here don't really mind to luxury but to logistics, and stuff should be ready to work at any time.

Btw, in every airport I know you can't simply get in there, board the plane and go like is done with trains. I don't know other people experience, but every time a put a foot on the airport it take at very least 30 min to be in the plane with it ready to take-off.
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Old 7th Dec 2019, 12:47
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RotorBunny View Post
Thanks for your valuable reply to this thread and I appreciate your opinion on my experience; I'm sure rigoletto also greatly appreciates your contribution to this thread.
8 years EH101 (or Merlin as it was), 4 years Super Puma (332 & 225), 3 years S92. I have updated my profile just for you!
My opinion is from my personal experiences alone, it might differ from your opinion, and that's OK.
You are welcome Bunny,
Your initial comparison is still lopsided and without support.
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Old 7th Dec 2019, 13:36
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Rigoletto,
From your description I guess it is some salvage business or ships main engine repair work your crew is doing?
If the luxury is not an issue, You might want to look into renovated S61(T) as well.
by Carsonís/Cobham
new laminated rotor blades, glass cockpit.
large cargo door etc.
When you want to scramble a crew for unprepared take-off you will be surprised how much time it will take to scramble aircraft crew and prepare flight plan. Locations to land nearby your destination will also be limited to airports if you can not ask for permissions for off-airport landing well in advance.

I assume you will not want to employ multiple pilots on stand-by?
Who is going to man, manage and maintain the aircraft?
Perhaps better to get a (local?) helicopter company involved to see what they can contribute to your business case?
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