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Fuelling up- H145

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Fuelling up- H145

Old 7th Nov 2019, 17:35
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Fuelling up- H145

Hi,

I haven't been able to tankup our H145 to its capacity, since it was recieved from assembly line in Feb 2019. I have seen 670kg tops, on gauge. Is it the same for others too? There has been a fuel tank valve replacement by Airbus Helicopters, but still no joy. Views, inputs and experiences are welcome.


Thanks

P.S. - Credible tolerance values at full tank if available, may bring about satisfactory reply too.
peeush is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2019, 22:05
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H145 at N8
Check fuelstate / thats in flight about 10 min after off block ;-)
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 02:06
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Most rental car contract require returning the car full fuel, but fuel next to airport is high price.

So what you do is fuel it next to your hotel 50 Km away the night before at beyond capacity.

Fuel it full, wait for the pump release click, shake the car (quite a few dead air comes up) fuel again.

6 am at the airport fuel gauge still on "Full"
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 02:48
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Originally Posted by Agile View Post
Most rental car contract require returning the car full fuel, but fuel next to airport is high price.

So what you do is fuel it next to your hotel 50 Km away the night before at beyond capacity.

Fuel it full, wait for the pump release click, shake the car (quite a few dead air comes up) fuel again.

6 am at the airport fuel gauge still on "Full"
Funny enough I saw that same advice on the pros and cons of car rental on Tripadvisor......
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 02:59
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Very good advice, Agile. I'll remember that for next time.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 13:07
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Originally Posted by Flying Bull View Post


H145 at N8
Check fuelstate / thats in flight about 10 min after off block ;-)
Thanks, it helps
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 19:55
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If it helps,
i have another photo, where I had a little problem
with the TOT
688 kg of fuel



VMS page H145
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Old 9th Nov 2019, 06:09
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I guess your problem has been solved-but in general, all helicopters with "rubber-type" fuel tank(s) have the same problem..

It takes a while until the tanks have stretched a bit, and the aircraft can take its maximum amount of fuel possible... From my experience, sometimes more than a hundred refuelings....but at the end, it will get there...
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Old 9th Nov 2019, 09:48
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I have been in aviation quite a long time and been involved with replacing quite a number of flexible tanks, but this is the first I have heard of 'stretch fit' Surely this is not correct, (or is it?)
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 01:03
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Originally Posted by bluesafari View Post
I have been in aviation quite a long time and been involved with replacing quite a number of flexible tanks, but this is the first I have heard of 'stretch fit' Surely this is not correct, (or is it?)
I doubt it too.
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 17:40
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I never paid attention to this before I started flying the 135 in the military version.. (self sealing tanks).

There this is a real problem....
Later on I learnt that this seems to be specific to bulletproof ("self-sealing") tanks, and on the BK117 we could actually solve this by opening the floor panels and readjust the fuel tanks..

Believe it or not.. It worked..

"Stretching" does not mean then material is giving in... But the tanks in some helicopters seem to need some time until they can be filled to max..
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 11:21
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Fuel SG issue?

We've been operating two new H145 T2's since early May and have had the same fuel indication issue on both aircraft throughout. The fuel amount for a full main tank has varied from as little as 677 kgs, up to a maximum of 712 kgs. Our Engineers have been working hard to figure out what the issue is. At first, it was thought it was the 'age old' 145/117 ball valve, slope of the ground issues etc. However, with both aircraft indicating the same main tank fuel amount after refuels on the same day, (within 1-2 kgs) the feeling was the issue was being caused by something else. After multiple defuels and refuels, where, by the amount supplied via a fuelling truck, they could guarantee that the tanks were full to the max possible (as stated in the RFM by Airbus), our engineers narrowed down the issue to being caused by a change in the specific gravity of the fuel being supplied to us. When the refuel company informed us that they were using a new batch of fuel, the fuel SG had changed when checked and the maximum amount indicated in both our aircraft main tanks changed too! The SG has varied from 0.775 up to 0.795. Airbus are aware of this issue elsewhere in the world and are sending out an engineer next week, to train our engineers on how to recalibrate the main tank fuel probes. We're told that airbus are working on a permanent fix?

Pain in the arse when you need a certain amount of fuel to be indicating on TEMPO days!

Hope this helps?
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 17:35
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IS the fuel flow normally different between # 1 AND # 2 , Not a huge difference.

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Old 14th Nov 2019, 05:05
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IS the fuel flow normally different between # 1 AND # 2, Not a huge difference.
Which is reflected in the N1 speed.

Lots of variables at play there.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 08:23
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Originally Posted by RVDT View Post
Which is reflected in the N1 speed.

Lots of variables at play there.
Looks like a result of TRQ matching - must be the German background as normally Airbus/EC/AS go for N1 matching! Of more interest - what happened to the number 2 TOT???
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 08:45
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I've flown about 15 different H145 (D2/T2...) in the last four years and I couldnt fill up a single one of them as per the max capacity of the FM. 573Kg in the main tank is my personal record and the last 50L are always a pain in the a** with fuel foam rising up. Its still nice to fly an aircraft that can actually be fueled up all the way and still be ready for all the missions I could throw at it while still being within CAT-A limits.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 11:54
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The BK117 D-2 matches N1 at low power, switches to TRQ matching at intermediate power and at high intermediate to high power matches the FLI power margins so donít expect to see exactly matching parameters at cruise powers.

FNW.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 13:13
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Originally Posted by alfasprite View Post
We've been operating two new H145 T2's since early May and have had the same fuel indication issue on both aircraft throughout. The fuel amount for a full main tank has varied from as little as 677 kgs, up to a maximum of 712 kgs. Our Engineers have been working hard to figure out what the issue is. At first, it was thought it was the 'age old' 145/117 ball valve, slope of the ground issues etc. However, with both aircraft indicating the same main tank fuel amount after refuels on the same day, (within 1-2 kgs) the feeling was the issue was being caused by something else. After multiple defuels and refuels, where, by the amount supplied via a fuelling truck, they could guarantee that the tanks were full to the max possible (as stated in the RFM by Airbus), our engineers narrowed down the issue to being caused by a change in the specific gravity of the fuel being supplied to us. When the refuel company informed us that they were using a new batch of fuel, the fuel SG had changed when checked and the maximum amount indicated in both our aircraft main tanks changed too! The SG has varied from 0.775 up to 0.795. Airbus are aware of this issue elsewhere in the world and are sending out an engineer next week, to train our engineers on how to recalibrate the main tank fuel probes. We're told that airbus are working on a permanent fix?

Pain in the arse when you need a certain amount of fuel to be indicating on TEMPO days!

Hope this helps?
Ok, Iím going to stick my head above the parapet and look stupid, possibly, but where is the volume to weight calculation being done? I thought the capacitance probes simply send volume information, and the SG to weight calculations are done in the VEMD (same with fuel flow - metering valve position equals volume flow rate equals mass flow rate for an assumed SG).
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 15:16
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212man,

No VEMD on the D-2. The fuel algorithm for fuel mass is contained in the Helionix software within the AMCs.

FNW
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 15:31
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Originally Posted by FloaterNorthWest View Post
212man,

No VEMD on the D-2. The fuel algorithm for fuel mass is contained in the Helionix software within the AMCs.

FNW
ok, but supports my general query though, thanks
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