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AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

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AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:47
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The forward float bag protrusions evident in #17 do not seem to be there in the underwater images. Which makes me wonder if they had been removed.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:55
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
For all of that structural damage....it was not a soft impact.

Question for the 139 drivers.....How are the floats actuated on the 139?

Any Saltwater switches or Float Valve Switches that will trigger the floats automatically....if the system is armed?

Are there indications in the photos that give a clue as to whether the floats inflated or not?
Recommended gear up to ditch. Float switch arms collective manual override. Immersion should auto activate floats with float switch on or off.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:56
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Why would one operate a helicopter on extended over-water flights (To/From Florida-Bahamas) without floats being. installed and serviceable?
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:04
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Why would one operate a helicopter on extended over-water flights (To/From Florida-Bahamas) without floats being. installed and serviceable?
and rafts and the Deployable ELT
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:08
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Not required for Part 91. May people down here operate without floats. Personal option.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:08
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Originally Posted by Sikpilot View Post
Were both pilots IFR rated? Either pilot ex military?
I know Geoff was rated IFR, he was also an ex RAF Tornado Pilot for what itís worrh.

No idea of their recency though and experience in the type.

Last edited by havick; 6th Jul 2019 at 16:33.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:08
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A kind and knowledgeable gentleman kindly sent this to me about the 139 Float system.


ADA AW139 A6-AWN Ditching off UAE, 29 April 2017: Final Report - Aerossurance
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:18
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From the RFM. Yep, automatically deployed, or by manual activation.


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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:21
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Check FAA website, Geoff Painter had an ATP which requires instrument ticket. Other pilot, David Jude also had instrument ticket.
But even if you have instrument ticket and are IFR and night current, flying over open water at night is the deepest IMC you will ever fly. Especially tricky is the transition from over land to over water.
Crashes at this critical point in flight happen down here all the time...even with very experienced pilots.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:28
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Originally Posted by Sir Korsky View Post
...Immersion should auto activate floats with float switch on or off.
RFM says FLOATS EMERG must be set to ON for both automatic and manual inflation.

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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:28
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
The forward float bag protrusions evident in #17 do not seem to be there in the underwater images. Which makes me wonder if they had been removed.
You aren't seeing the floats there in post #17. You're seeing OPTIONAL hard covers for the floats. They are made to tear off when the float inflates. The float bag cover underneath the hard covers is silver and is what you see on most 139's with floats as it is quite rare to see a machine with the hard covers fitted.

The underwater photos are not clear enough to ascertain if the floats are installed or not. The bags are flush (near enough) with the fuselage skin so it is hard to see.

Not surprised to see the tailboom off. Such a large lever hitting the water hard is going to break off. Looks like some serious crushing of the belly area on the right side too.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 15:54
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Originally Posted by Sikpilot View Post
Were both pilots IFR rated? Either pilot ex military?
IFR rated vs. IFR proficient is a big difference. Not a lot of hard IMC flying in Florida and the Bahamas to keep one sharp for a 2am overwater flight to a private island.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 16:37
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Floats or not is academic, it was not a ditching, it was a high impact crash. Weakness in operational standard that governed aircraft equipment, operational oversight (flight following, crew scheduling), and pilot skill and qualification appears to have continued the open season helicopters seem to have on rich guys. You crash in the ocean and nobody knows for hours until you havenít shown up at your destination? No sat tracking, no flight watch? Iíll reserve judgement on the crew suitability beyond just their certificates, we flew safely offshore and EMS with routine black hole departures because of our operational standards and experience requirements. Should have been an easy flight for a 139.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 16:48
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I fly those deep night, no moon, no star conditions over open ocean water routinely. As I mentioned earlier, even the most skilled and experienced pilots can get into trouble on a night like that. It happens down here all the time. July 2 was the new moon and the conditions the next night would have been a very deep, dark night near Grand Cay.

Pilots need to be current for these exact conditions - no moon, deep night, over-water conditions, not just having a rating.

I agree, this was not a ditch.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 16:51
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
RFM says FLOATS EMERG must be set to ON for both automatic and manual inflation.
I stand corrected
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 16:56
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Just wondering: who will be the lead agency investigating this one? NTSB ?
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 16:59
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Should have been an easy flight for a 139.
absolutely
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 17:42
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Just wondering: who will be the lead agency investigating this one? NTSB ?
I doubt the NTSB will even look at it being part 91 and in a different country.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 18:19
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this news reporting is soooo inaccurate!
red helo inverted with un-inflated floats?
white helicopter with wheels underwater?
registration in a video as HB-ZUV
two listed as pilots, painter and jude, both principals in cloud 9 helicopters
time of day/night......
my goodness, too much of a rush to 'GET THAT STORY'
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 18:30
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Just wondering: who will be the lead agency investigating this one? NTSB ?


This crash will be investigated by the Air Accident Investigation Department of the Bahamas (
http://www.baaid.gov.bs/).

From the Tribune Freeport:

According to a statement by AAID issued by Grand Bahama NEMA official Tammi Mitchell, AAID has dispatched a team of investigators to the crash site. They will be joined and assisted by a team from the United States.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as well as the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) of Canada and the manufacturer of the aircraft and engine have been notified and will be providing assistance to the AAID with the investigation.

A salvage team has been dispatched to recover the aircraft and transport it to Florida where an inspection and investigation will be carried out.

"The AAID is mindful of the families that lost loved ones in this tragedy. We understand people want answers rapidly. We offer our deepest condolences. At present we are assessing this occurrence," the statement read.

"Once on site, our team will collect data, conduct witness interviews, examine and photograph the wreckage before it is transported to the facility in Florida for further analysis and documentation."

The statement indicated that AAID also will be looking to examine the maintenance history of the craft, review weather information, operations policies, regulations requirements and the operation of the aircraft.

AAID will have to examine all the information before drawing any conclusion.

"It is too early to say what the causes and contributing factors of this accident might be. The AAID will be also working with local law enforcement, the Royal Bahamas Defence Force and other government and non-governmental agencies to ensure that those affected and next of kin are provided with information about the accident, and the next steps," the statement read.

AAID will provide updates on its website at www.baaid.org, on its Twitter page at bahamas_aaid, and through its WhatsApp Chat.

AAID thanked all emergency personnel and first responders for the support provided to local community and the assistance provided its team.



http://www.tribune242.com/news/2019/...t-nassau/?news
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