Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Helicopter crashes into the Hudson River NYC

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Helicopter crashes into the Hudson River NYC

Old 15th May 2019, 19:43
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London/Atlanta
Posts: 432
Helicopter crashes into the Hudson River NYC

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-injuries.html

Includes film of the accident, according to an eyewitness floats deployed just prior to hitting the water.
nomorehelosforme is offline  
Old 15th May 2019, 20:26
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 773
GoodGrief is online now  
Old 15th May 2019, 21:02
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 3,336
LTE, perhaps?
MightyGem is offline  
Old 15th May 2019, 23:08
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 2,206
MightyGem, I hope your tongue is firmly in your cheek there?
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 15th May 2019, 23:39
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Inside the Industry
Posts: 650
I don’t know what TR issue caused the spinning but looks like he did quite a good job getting it down, certainly used all the RRPM.
industry insider is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 00:10
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,872
Pretty strong wind blowing looking at the US Flag.....groundspeed was zeroed out and a turn to the right to a more or less down wind heading....at which point the rotation begins. The aircraft gained height during the spin and the tail rotor appeared to continue rotating at a steady RPM.

Being a Bell Jet Ranger that was involved....the notorious LTE must be considered the suspect!
SASless is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 01:39
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 872
What if there was some mechanical failure and loss of TR pitch which caused a power boost to the MR, hence the initial climb?
krypton_john is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 02:00
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,830
That has too slow. Too low. Too much tail wind. A tight orbit and he's worn a chunk of MR down-wash in his TR. Written all over it. I'd be surprised if there was anything mechanically wrong with the aircraft until after it hit the water.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 02:30
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 634
As someone who has had a complete loss-of-thrust tail rotor failure at a hover in a 206, I can tell you that they spin a *LOT* faster than that. You have to experience it to believe it.

This one was LTE. Pilot-induced LTE.
FH1100 Pilot is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 02:32
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 231
Has - Run out of Ability, judgement and excuses written all over it...

Tired of the aircraft getting the blame for all these spills filmed in questionable phases of flight...
NRDK is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 02:39
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,830
Pencil in one of those coffee dates with the CP; you know, the coffee dates without any coffee. "Oops, sorry boss for wrecking your helicopter...I won't be doing that again". Lucky he was over water, had the floats popped, and no serious physical harm to anybody. The insurance will pay for another one. Well, after deducting the deductibles, almost.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 02:48
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 2,206
Slow orbit, tries to come to hover downwind (big nose-up attitude to stop groundspeed, so probably going backwards in the airflow). Gets to limit of pedal travel, starts to turn. Pulls power to get away, doesn't work. Lowers lever to reduce torque, heads for water. Looks inside to find float switches (and loses control of attitude) pops floats, looks up, says "Oh poop..." and splash.

No LTE. Unless you mean Lack of Training and Experience. Bell hasn't had anything they could pin LTE on since the bigger tail rotor came out.
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 03:03
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,830
Yep....the crash comic for that one will pretty much read like a .... well, like a crash comic. Shouldn't take long to write, just do a cut and paste from a previous one. Me suspects.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 03:14
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by FH1100 Pilot View Post
As someone who has had a complete loss-of-thrust tail rotor failure at a hover in a 206, I can tell you that they spin a *LOT* faster than that. You have to experience it to believe it.

This one was LTE. Pilot-induced LTE.
Yep, in excess of 180deg per sec. Make one quite dizzy. This was a leisurely yaw rate in comparison.
zzodr is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 06:54
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 141
Yep, Pilot induced LTE. Expected in a Jetranger yes,but a little surprising as this
was a Longranger,
claudia is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 08:34
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yorkshire uk
Posts: 1,457
May be trick of the eye but doesn’t it look like a lot of spray coming from the bottom of the Heli just before it disappears? I guess it could be recirc of spray from the water ......
why would you do something like a quick stop downwind and then hover out of ground effect ? Same manoeuvre could have been done safely at 180 deg !!
nigelh is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 08:49
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,830
I think that question would be at the top of the list when he has his coffee appointment with the CP.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 09:23
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 2,206
look like a lot of spray coming from the bottom of the Heli just before it disappears?
The powder that is packed around the floats to ensure the rubber bits don't stick together. Poooofff!
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 14:43
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 62
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by claudia View Post
Yep, Pilot induced LTE. Expected in a Jetranger yes,but a little surprising as this
was a Longranger,
I fly a SPIFR L3 and at max gross (which it seems I'm always at - it's a heavy machine) there isn't a large margin of left pedal and torque available... Not as bad as an early Jetranger, but still... Turning into a tailwind and then decelerating to a hover seems to be asking for it. There were two places I thought maybe he was going to get out of it... he starts a brief climb... I was hoping he was going to try to get a little altitude so he could then lower the collective and have a little altitude to trade for airspeed... and then again when he goes down out of sight it's pretty clear to me that he must have pretty much stopped the descent because there's a pretty long delay before you see the spray from hitting the water... I'm guessing he got some help from ground effect, but probably the turning disoriented him enough that he eventually rolled it over.

Almost 30 years ago I flew with another instructor who had an LTE encounter on top of a small mountain (and he crashed). He showed me how to hover while yawing at a fairly high rate. The trick is to use the blur of the horizon/trees/whatever to keep the wings level and the nose from pitching down or up... it's not a comfortable thing to practice, but with some practice you can hover at pretty high yaw rates for long periods of time. If you haven't practiced it, it seems like most people lose control within 5 seconds... usually by dropping a wing.

I've been into W34th a number of times (but not recently) in the L3 and never had a problem, but then I'm always paranoid about power available so I'd never try a direct downwind approach like he did... let alone a downwind deceleration to a hover!
Paul Cantrell is offline  
Old 16th May 2019, 15:34
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,171
Yes, I think there is a lesson in there for a lot of pilots about wind, power and TR authority awareness.

Many of them forget that the loss of translational lift brings with it an increase in power required for both the main and tail rotors.

Used to see it a lot mountain flying where the extra pedal required came as a surprise!
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.