Electric tail rotor; an alternative?
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: The Wild West (UK)
I have always liked this method of implementing twin tailrotors. They're not mounted on the tail, admittedly.
I don't know whether they provide redundancy in this case, but as a concept I don't see why it couldn't.
I don't know whether they provide redundancy in this case, but as a concept I don't see why it couldn't.
Last edited by abgd; 7th December 2018 at 12:19.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
That machine isn't very practical, for a number of reasons discussed here a long time ago.
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: on the cusp
Originally Posted by [email protected]
DcL - I'll take your word for the advancement of the technology - I'm just a guy who flys helicopters for a living not a boffin. but given these constraints how close are we really to seeing ETR in production?
The thing I see is that technology is advancing so fast that the move to hybrid and all electric may mean it's not worth the short term investments for just an ETR. Hence my comments about the next 10 years.
As I say, my opinion only .
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
I have been reliably informed the UH-60 Blackhawk Tail Rotor can demand as much as 800 Horsepower.
How much would a 24VDC Electric Motor weigh in order to provide that much output?
What kind of gearing/gearbox/shafting would it require?
What Electric Load would it have to have feeding it....and what would the Generator/Alternator weigh for that?
Where would you place the Electric Motor along the Tail Boom not to have a CG Issue?
Let's carry this a bit further......what size motor would be required to power the CH-47F's Aft Rotor considering it already has two 4700 shp Engines driving the rotor system now.
How much would a 24VDC Electric Motor weigh in order to provide that much output?
What kind of gearing/gearbox/shafting would it require?
What Electric Load would it have to have feeding it....and what would the Generator/Alternator weigh for that?
Where would you place the Electric Motor along the Tail Boom not to have a CG Issue?
Let's carry this a bit further......what size motor would be required to power the CH-47F's Aft Rotor considering it already has two 4700 shp Engines driving the rotor system now.
Last edited by SASless; 8th December 2018 at 19:45.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 289
From: Poplar Grove, IL, USA
How much would a 24VDC Electric Motor weigh in order to provide that much output?
What kind of gearing/gearbox/shafting would it require?
What Electric Load would it have to have feeding it....and what would the Generator/Alternator weigh for that?
What kind of gearing/gearbox/shafting would it require?
What Electric Load would it have to have feeding it....and what would the Generator/Alternator weigh for that?
800 HP is close to 600 kVA. A 250kVA B787 generator weighs a bit less than 300 lbs IIRC. Motors and generators are similar machines, so figure something like 600 lbs, unless somebody comes up with better technology. You should not need a gearbox for the UH60 tail rotor speed range with an electric motor.
you would need a big honking generator to run that 800 HP motor.
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
Brother Dixson is correct that the demand would vary with the amount of Tail Rotor Thrust being applied or in the Chinook example what the Aft Rotor Head demand range could be from setting stationary on the Ground to lifting at Max Allowable Gross Weight.
If you think you need a big generator for the Hawk Tail Rotor....the Chinook application would be really huge!
If you think you need a big generator for the Hawk Tail Rotor....the Chinook application would be really huge!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 28
From: UK/OZ
If someone did come up with a bolt on spin recovery system (not a parachute!) for existing helicopters, would the industry adopt it?
Here is one hypothetical scenario:
Bolt on apparatus with no or min adaptions required to the air frame. Derigable.
Operates independently
Weight 30 kg (moving CoG rear of mast.)
Engauges automatically
Low maintenance
No other use but for countering the high speed yaw on light and medium helicopters.
At what price would such a safety device be considered too expensive?
For reference, we saw that despite the obvious benifits of crash resistant fuel cells for the r44, they were not widely retrofitted as a matter of free choice, due to cost.
mjb
Here is one hypothetical scenario:
Bolt on apparatus with no or min adaptions required to the air frame. Derigable.
Operates independently
Weight 30 kg (moving CoG rear of mast.)
Engauges automatically
Low maintenance
No other use but for countering the high speed yaw on light and medium helicopters.
At what price would such a safety device be considered too expensive?
For reference, we saw that despite the obvious benifits of crash resistant fuel cells for the r44, they were not widely retrofitted as a matter of free choice, due to cost.
mjb
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
30 kg on the tail would be a sizeable CG change - we used to put 10kg there to counter a massive camera on the nose. Without a camera, and 30 kg on the tail - fuggeddabardit!
Automatic engagement just invites undemanded deployment - that would be exciting.
No use for it, other than the 1:1million chance of a tail fail - no thank you, rather have 30kg more payload and a workable CG for the 999,999 other flights.
Automatic engagement just invites undemanded deployment - that would be exciting.
No use for it, other than the 1:1million chance of a tail fail - no thank you, rather have 30kg more payload and a workable CG for the 999,999 other flights.
