Cumbria - Dauphin in the fog...
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Crab I don’t think the crew are cowboys. They just pushed too far and that is a mistake. My experience has nothing to do with it. Not done SAR or SF. Never claimed this. However the ground is hard and the weather is the same for all of us. It’s a bit harsh to attack my credentials without you knowing who and what I am or have done. But maybe you read my public profile as I don’t hide or pretend to be anything special. Like I said I respect your defending this position. If I screw up I would appreciate the support of someone like you. Just try to see it for what it was. You suggest as much in your other posts. No need for us to regress back to our Neanderthal default positions.
chopjock, I agree, in this circumstances the road is the safest extraction but this debate is about getting there and ending up with that as the only option. Rules and limits are there to protect us and hopefully stop us pushing on when maybe we should take a time out so we expressly do not end up risking ourselves and third parties.
‘In this respect only, the crew, in my view have got themselves in a stickier situation than when sticky the stick insect got stuck on a stick. Good on them for surviving the experience. I am sure they learned from it.
DB
chopjock, I agree, in this circumstances the road is the safest extraction but this debate is about getting there and ending up with that as the only option. Rules and limits are there to protect us and hopefully stop us pushing on when maybe we should take a time out so we expressly do not end up risking ourselves and third parties.
‘In this respect only, the crew, in my view have got themselves in a stickier situation than when sticky the stick insect got stuck on a stick. Good on them for surviving the experience. I am sure they learned from it.
DB
Good on them for surviving the experience. I am sure they learned from it.
For crying out loud.....give it a friggin rest will you!
It was a bit of fog and some weather that quickly changed due to the terrain.
As you were told....it was all in a day's work for the crew...they complied with Unit Procedures and Policies....reported the occurrence BEFORE it became publicized.
If you think this event was a major life threatening thing.....I begin to question your bona fides.....or at least your motivation for harping on and on about this.
There are very few professional helicopter pilots, civilian or military, that have not encountered similar situations and done as this Crew did.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with their actions....they tried one route...got weathered out...did a 180 and returned to appropriate weather conditions and continued the Mission.
We in the US Military have an expression....."Charlie Mike!".....continue the Mission.
That is what the Crew did.....as they should have.
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Fact is - anybody who has done this type of work for a few years has got at least a handful of experiences similar to (or more exciting than) this. It goes with the job. It is inevitable that you will end up in some challenging situations which may require above-average training, experience and teamwork to fix. Fortunately, that is what these guys have available to them, and that is why they do not pile in like your average weekend Robbo pilot might have done.
There are very few professional helicopter pilots, civilian or military, that have not encountered similar situations and done as this Crew did.
1842 commercial pilots in 2016. If we assume an average 30 years of civilian rotary flying each and only one such situation per pilot, that is more than one a week. Funny how this cab got filmed and none of the others.....
Last edited by homonculus; 1st Sep 2018 at 21:50. Reason: Facts added
Homie....there is life beyond the confines of the small island you live on.....like the entire rest of the World.
There are places that have far more challenging flying conditions and terrain than your country.
Add in the rest of the World to your Stats and tell us how that affects your calculations!
Take a look at the American Northwest, Canada, and Alaska....for a start.
There are places that have far more challenging flying conditions and terrain than your country.
Add in the rest of the World to your Stats and tell us how that affects your calculations!
Take a look at the American Northwest, Canada, and Alaska....for a start.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Thought I'd just finish this thread with some more detail to calm the outraged Daily Mailers
Having had an update from those in the know, the video clip actually shows the aircraft hovertaxiing back out of the weather having turned round instead of pushing on. No IFR option due to location and fuel.
Having had an update from those in the know, the video clip actually shows the aircraft hovertaxiing back out of the weather having turned round instead of pushing on. No IFR option due to location and fuel.
PDR
For what most people would understand as quite obvious reasons - No.
However, send your location and I'm sure they could pay a visit
DB - I think Sasless said it all.............seems plenty of people can't dismount their high horses.......
However, send your location and I'm sure they could pay a visit
DB - I think Sasless said it all.............seems plenty of people can't dismount their high horses.......
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Ahh the great SAS has decreed and Crab agrees. I therefore must conclude that I am wrong and have been all along. So Rotorheads, apparently it is perfectly OK to fly along public roads (edges), in the weedisphere in fog. The more important your job is, apparently the more acceptable this kind of flying will be. OM limits.....Pah! They don’t matter. Rules and Regs.....apparently for “inexperienced pilots........like me”
So now I realise what a knob I have been, not realising that I was wrong to be “morally outraged” when clearly taxpayers money can be spent and expended without question or accountability I will withdraw and leave this subject to the “experts” like Crab.
Good luck in the fog....sadly 35 years of fear and inexperience will cause me not to be with you. Like a massive Jessy that I clearly am I will be above you IFR with at least 1,000 feet between me and the ground, or worse somewhere else at my OM min height in approved VFR conditions. Sadly due to my chronic “inexperience” if the weather starts to look like it might go below my limits I am such a wus I have to turn around or land.
My only hope is that fog does not suddenly fall on top of me like wot happened here, especially if I planned carefully and had good tafs and stuff. Still I only have about 17k hours so maybe not enough exposure yet for this to happen.
So now I realise what a knob I have been, not realising that I was wrong to be “morally outraged” when clearly taxpayers money can be spent and expended without question or accountability I will withdraw and leave this subject to the “experts” like Crab.
Good luck in the fog....sadly 35 years of fear and inexperience will cause me not to be with you. Like a massive Jessy that I clearly am I will be above you IFR with at least 1,000 feet between me and the ground, or worse somewhere else at my OM min height in approved VFR conditions. Sadly due to my chronic “inexperience” if the weather starts to look like it might go below my limits I am such a wus I have to turn around or land.
My only hope is that fog does not suddenly fall on top of me like wot happened here, especially if I planned carefully and had good tafs and stuff. Still I only have about 17k hours so maybe not enough exposure yet for this to happen.
Last edited by DOUBLE BOGEY; 2nd Sep 2018 at 07:03.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
For what most people would understand as quite obvious reasons - No.
PDR
Come now children, play nice and put the toys back in the pram.
Why the outrage that someone disagrees with you, are you all so desperate to be proven right or to feel validated in your personal views?
This has really become an incredibly dull peeing contest.
If the crew is as professional as claimed they will have a long and productive career, if not they will leave a smoking hole somewhere.
Nothing to be seen here.
Why the outrage that someone disagrees with you, are you all so desperate to be proven right or to feel validated in your personal views?
This has really become an incredibly dull peeing contest.
If the crew is as professional as claimed they will have a long and productive career, if not they will leave a smoking hole somewhere.
Nothing to be seen here.
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Whoa there Leslie....! Steady yourselves!
Have never ventured onto this bit of Pprune before.
I see several "walts" trying to reinforce their credentials via criticism.
I know of the situation in discussion, and know people who know the crew. There was nothing 'out of the ordinary'.
Reading criticism of 'off-textbook' procedures by people who could only ever dream of being in that r/h seat are amusing though.
Have never ventured onto this bit of Pprune before.
I see several "walts" trying to reinforce their credentials via criticism.
I know of the situation in discussion, and know people who know the crew. There was nothing 'out of the ordinary'.
Reading criticism of 'off-textbook' procedures by people who could only ever dream of being in that r/h seat are amusing though.