Cumbria - Dauphin in the fog...
DB - they are NOT hover taxiing along a road, they are hover taxiing at the side of the road as it's the line feature throughout that piece of terrain. You seem to keep typing thing that are a twist on events or contradictory and to be quite frank it's tiresome.
Crab and yourself clearly don't like each other and are both highly experienced and in guessing you both were taught by Aunt Betty albeit with different coloured pyjamas.
Due to the nature of this airframe featured we'll never know fully what happened but one day I'm sure the pilot will end up working with us in industry and we may discover more. Who knows; they may have learnt something from it.
Too many people have crashed and died by descending low lever in shyt weather and kept doing 100kts plus. Yes you should turn around ideally, or land and wait, but humans can be stubborn and want to keep going forward. This video demonstrates a sensible option of going LOW and SLOW. Who knows; it might even sit in the back of other pilots minds know; either don't be there in the first place or go low and slow along a line feature.
Crab and yourself clearly don't like each other and are both highly experienced and in guessing you both were taught by Aunt Betty albeit with different coloured pyjamas.
Due to the nature of this airframe featured we'll never know fully what happened but one day I'm sure the pilot will end up working with us in industry and we may discover more. Who knows; they may have learnt something from it.
Too many people have crashed and died by descending low lever in shyt weather and kept doing 100kts plus. Yes you should turn around ideally, or land and wait, but humans can be stubborn and want to keep going forward. This video demonstrates a sensible option of going LOW and SLOW. Who knows; it might even sit in the back of other pilots minds know; either don't be there in the first place or go low and slow along a line feature.
MisterBonkers, I did have some respect for DB's experience and knowledge but his repeated attacks on a crew he doesn't know anything about and his last unwarranted swipe at RAFSAR - btw he has NEVER done any SAR - mark him down as one step up from a troll on this forum.
Al-Bert, this thread is not about the merits and achievements of RAFSAR! Which BTW I have due respect for.
its a debate on the perceived risks associated with hover taxiing in fog along a public road. If you think this is perfectly acceptable that’s great but I am of the opposite opinion. However, I am wasting my time competing with the great SAR gods who think swallowing risk whole makes you all special. I will be honest with you though. I would rather fly with a seasoned HEMS pilot any day than share a cockpit with a RAFSAR pilot and their unique lack of risk awareness and to be frank, arrogance. I have experienced several RAFSAR pilots at very close quarters and to be honest, you guys don’t travel well. CRM, paradoxically, almost absent when you don a civvy flight suit. You need to learn some humility. That’s me being restrained.
its a debate on the perceived risks associated with hover taxiing in fog along a public road. If you think this is perfectly acceptable that’s great but I am of the opposite opinion. However, I am wasting my time competing with the great SAR gods who think swallowing risk whole makes you all special. I will be honest with you though. I would rather fly with a seasoned HEMS pilot any day than share a cockpit with a RAFSAR pilot and their unique lack of risk awareness and to be frank, arrogance. I have experienced several RAFSAR pilots at very close quarters and to be honest, you guys don’t travel well. CRM, paradoxically, almost absent when you don a civvy flight suit. You need to learn some humility. That’s me being restrained.
Avoid imitations
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DB, now stop worrying!
After all, military ops are risky by their very nature. Even if we don't allow our chaps to take risks, the other side always will - and will win.
I have flown in similar conditions of very poor visibilty, as a military pilot. I vividly recall an occasion when I had to ask my crewman if the road was clear before we crossed it and we then had to hover taxy through someone's back garden, much to the surprise of a lady bringing in her washing. I won't go into the circumstances, but it was seen as a matter of great importance that we reached our destination. Would I do it again? Not as a corporate pilot - but thankfully these days I do have the option of operating under IFR with a decent fuel endurance - back then we didn't.
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Crab I have not attacked the crew.
Me and you are boring everyone now because as usual you turn everything into a willy ŵaving contest instead of looking at the subject matter.
Answer the question, would you have continued from reasonable VMC, up a hill, into fog, in the weedisphere, whereby your survival and that of your pax now depends on a line feature, road, along which members of the public are driving and riding?
My position is there are no circumstances, SAR, HEMS, SF, CHARTER where I would consider this to be acceptable. That’s what this is about.
Now what would you do and why?
Now no no more from me as I just end up letting myself down.
Me and you are boring everyone now because as usual you turn everything into a willy ŵaving contest instead of looking at the subject matter.
Answer the question, would you have continued from reasonable VMC, up a hill, into fog, in the weedisphere, whereby your survival and that of your pax now depends on a line feature, road, along which members of the public are driving and riding?
My position is there are no circumstances, SAR, HEMS, SF, CHARTER where I would consider this to be acceptable. That’s what this is about.
Now what would you do and why?
Now no no more from me as I just end up letting myself down.
Now no no more from me as I just end up letting myself down.
There was no willy waving here, except in your imagination.
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Unfortunately you have: both directly and indirectly.
What and how far do you know the 365 had transited from VMC? The nine seconds of video with the 365 show it travelling no more than 200 metres, probably 150, in a nose up attitude commensurate with coming to a hover. All with the cabin door open and a check being given from the back: maybe looking for a landing?
How far do you know the 365 continued after it left the video shot?
How do you know that there were pax on board?
As I posted before, many of us have done Mil operations in severely reduced vis, low level, Mk 1 eyeballs, day/night with full command approval. Just because your experience didn’t include such stuff is no reason to carry on about HEMS, Charter, SAR et al. All of which I’ve also done, to different rules, around the globe.
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[/QUOTE] As I posted before, many of us have done Mil operations in severely reduced vis, low level, Mk 1 eyeballs, day/night with full command approval. Just because your experience didn’t include such stuff is no reason to carry on about HEMS, Charter, SAR et al. All of which I’ve also done, to different rules, around the globe.
[/QUOTE]
Were you in a war? Or just swanning about UK?
I give up! Too many hero’s on one thread.
[/QUOTE]
Were you in a war? Or just swanning about UK?
I give up! Too many hero’s on one thread.
DB,
Thank You for finally putting an end to this bickering (which assumes Crab and a few others will go along with that kind offer....Me included).
I look forward to more interesting discussions that do not devolve into a slanging match between folks with a lot of experience in different fields of expertise having different views on the same matter.
Can we all move on to something else....please?
Thank You for finally putting an end to this bickering (which assumes Crab and a few others will go along with that kind offer....Me included).
I look forward to more interesting discussions that do not devolve into a slanging match between folks with a lot of experience in different fields of expertise having different views on the same matter.
Can we all move on to something else....please?
More bored than upset....as I know you from Years of reading your posts and know you have a lot of experience and knowledge but sometimes, as a lot of us do, sometimes you get wrapped up into chasing that Rabbit like a Greyhound at a Track.
You, and I include myself, are not by yourself in that trait.
That is what makes for good argument here at Rotorheads.
We just have to be careful how we bark while chasing that Rabbit.
Now as to Robbies......they are evil wee things sent to torment those who know what Helicopters are.....and are not.
Those that know Robbies but not helicopters cannot see the difference!
You, and I include myself, are not by yourself in that trait.
That is what makes for good argument here at Rotorheads.
We just have to be careful how we bark while chasing that Rabbit.
Now as to Robbies......they are evil wee things sent to torment those who know what Helicopters are.....and are not.
Those that know Robbies but not helicopters cannot see the difference!
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One more point...on reflection, if I was lying in a snotty heap on a fogbound hill and Crab or Albert hover taxed up to save my worthless ass.....I have to concur....I would be grateful!
i apologise if I was Barking too hard chasing SASs rabbit, to Crab, Albert and others. .......until the next time!
DB
i apologise if I was Barking too hard chasing SASs rabbit, to Crab, Albert and others. .......until the next time!
DB
I have seen all sorts of SAR Helicopters....even Jet Rangers but I have never seen a SAR Robbie!
Perhaps being up there in those conditions was the entire point of the exercise?
c/s in contact, casualties taken, about to be overrun, need extraction NOW.
I wouldn't want it to be to be the first time I had done it when I had to do it for real, and I'm sure the chaps on the ground wouldn’t either.
c/s in contact, casualties taken, about to be overrun, need extraction NOW.
I wouldn't want it to be to be the first time I had done it when I had to do it for real, and I'm sure the chaps on the ground wouldn’t either.