EC135 hard landing Chicago Area July 7
Lynx is an old bird, with air blown onto labyrinth type seals, that started leaking oil, when shutting down.
Happend to me, that the firetruck, on an Lynx unfamiliar airfield wanted to extinguish a smoking engine....
Could just stop them in time....
Back to the topic, which was a successful night autorotation after double engine failure, the first engine taking out the second.
Gullibel brought in the roumor, it could have been low oil pressure at the beginning, no prove so far.
The turn back, initiated by the pilot, was questioned without knowing, what actions he had done so far.
I personally think, that flying the aircraft, that is establishing OEI flight conditions, while turning to a direktion, where an autorotation is possible, is more important than diving down into the cockpit, to start to analyse, what’s going on.
At the end this saved lives, even if the bird is broken by know.
The other option would not have guaranteed, that the pilot would have been fast enough to prevent the engine going kaboom anyway - only, that he wouldn’t have had an area for the autorotation......
Happend to me, that the firetruck, on an Lynx unfamiliar airfield wanted to extinguish a smoking engine....
Could just stop them in time....
Back to the topic, which was a successful night autorotation after double engine failure, the first engine taking out the second.
Gullibel brought in the roumor, it could have been low oil pressure at the beginning, no prove so far.
The turn back, initiated by the pilot, was questioned without knowing, what actions he had done so far.
I personally think, that flying the aircraft, that is establishing OEI flight conditions, while turning to a direktion, where an autorotation is possible, is more important than diving down into the cockpit, to start to analyse, what’s going on.
At the end this saved lives, even if the bird is broken by know.
The other option would not have guaranteed, that the pilot would have been fast enough to prevent the engine going kaboom anyway - only, that he wouldn’t have had an area for the autorotation......
Jesus - we are digging into the weeds here aren't we.
May I remind all of you about:
Clutha accident 2013
and how a pilot may meet his/her ultimate challenge.
Having flown the EC135 for 2000hrs, mostly at night - it is very forgiving but when one is visited by the "silence" (where both donks stop), it is down to luck AND judgement.
The fella survived - bollox the size of pumpkins.
BZ.
Can we move on perhaps?
May I remind all of you about:
Clutha accident 2013
and how a pilot may meet his/her ultimate challenge.
Having flown the EC135 for 2000hrs, mostly at night - it is very forgiving but when one is visited by the "silence" (where both donks stop), it is down to luck AND judgement.
The fella survived - bollox the size of pumpkins.
BZ.
Can we move on perhaps?
So....if you were at a hover, two guys on the winch line, Pressure drops to zero and caution light illuminates....you hit the Red Button and cut the hoist wire, and immediately pull the Engine Lever to Stop....and shut the fuel cock to the affected engine?
Flying Bull - the white metal bearings are at the input to the MRGB stage not the back end of the engine where the No5 bearing seal used to leak.
SLAEF
Incredible job by the Pilot, hats off....having also walked away from a successful landing after engine failure (350B2) myself at low level, crap weather, in a narrow valley with very few options for a safe landing plus with an added bonus of a cockpit totally filled with smoke IMC inside; I feel for this guy. at night.............YIKES 
there has to be some airmanship and discretion applied to suit the scenario you find yourself in
Once took off in a single engine helo with zero engine oil pressure, confirmed by master caution & CWS & gauge, ran for long enough to do what we wanted to do.
Once took off in a single engine helo with zero engine oil pressure, confirmed by master caution & CWS & gauge, ran for long enough to do what we wanted to do.
So......it would appear there is a legitimate concern about serious engine issues upon detection of below minimum or loss of engine oil pressure that in some cases require an "emergency shutdown" of the ailing engine.
The procedure is different between Aircraft.....single versus twin engine owing to the idea of shutting down the only engine running creates its own dire emergency if done in flight.
Also, it is appears other considersations come into play in the decision to shut down an ailing engine.
This thought of "immediately" shutting down an engine bears some review to determine exactly what "immediately" should mean.
Rushing into carrying out an Emergency Procedure requires careful consideration as well because doing so might make a bad situation much worse.
We have to get back to the reality of Aviate, Navigate, Communicate to guide our actions......but most importantly we must (imperative tense) "THINK" about what we are doing to ensure we consider all of the factors before taking action when things start going wrong.
The procedure is different between Aircraft.....single versus twin engine owing to the idea of shutting down the only engine running creates its own dire emergency if done in flight.
Also, it is appears other considersations come into play in the decision to shut down an ailing engine.
This thought of "immediately" shutting down an engine bears some review to determine exactly what "immediately" should mean.
Rushing into carrying out an Emergency Procedure requires careful consideration as well because doing so might make a bad situation much worse.
We have to get back to the reality of Aviate, Navigate, Communicate to guide our actions......but most importantly we must (imperative tense) "THINK" about what we are doing to ensure we consider all of the factors before taking action when things start going wrong.
that is way beyond stupid, that is a criminal bloody act
As crab said,
you can't have a 'one-size fits all' approach to emergency handling...... there has to be some airmanship and discretion applied to suit the scenario you find yourself in .
I'd have done the same, saving self & fellow crew as opposed to poor airmanship 
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 23rd Jul 2018 at 02:36.
I think the point is just as you judged Megan....without knowing the full details....that happened earlier on when someone took exception to a 50 Second Delay without giving due consideration to the circumstances the Pilot in Chicago had to contend with.
Yep You're righ SASlesst; a judgement was made based on information provided, which certainly appeared devoid of good airmanship. Which later turns out to be seriously lacking in the full (critical) story, most likely to get a negative reaction? Had the information been a little more complete, opinions would have been greatly differing; rather praising & nothing less!
Or you could have credited Megan - who has been on this forum for a good while and always has good points to make - with the skills and knowledge to have made a decision based on whatever scenario he was dealt, rather than firing from the hip and assuming he was an idiot.
Incomplete information is bound to come from wrong opinions being formed....any lower-time Pilot reading that statement of blasting off with no engine oil pressure would certainly be assuming; hey so it's OK to do that. When if You do that due to gun-fire certainly puts a totally different spin on the info 
Asking for an explanation before offering that evaluation of a comment never hurts much as being in a difficult situation and taking that extra few seconds to fully consider all of the options can lead to a better outcome.
Along the lines of Megan's experience.....I can recall a situation that involved multiple emergency procedures compounded by an honest to goodness Cockpit fire.....where we coped with the situation as a Crew and never once referred to a Check List.
Sometimes One puts down the Etched Stone Tablet and simply does what is required.
Along the lines of Megan's experience.....I can recall a situation that involved multiple emergency procedures compounded by an honest to goodness Cockpit fire.....where we coped with the situation as a Crew and never once referred to a Check List.
Sometimes One puts down the Etched Stone Tablet and simply does what is required.
that's not airmanship - that's just plain stupid!
that is way beyond stupid, that is a criminal bloody act
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Megan's post didn't warrant those comments
Intentionally leaving out detail that significantly altered the context was always going to get a response, especially one that appeared to condone dangerous behaviour.
While you and others may know everyone around here and surmised there may be more to it, many others that do not have this context would have read it very differently and, as VF indicated, could have taken the wrong message away with them.
No, I think it is a symptom of modern social media where people feel they are entitled to launch into insults rather than ask a polite question.
It happens and I have done it myself - usually looking foolish afterwards when the detail comes out.
It happens and I have done it myself - usually looking foolish afterwards when the detail comes out.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
No, I think it is a symptom of modern social media where people feel they are entitled to launch into insults rather than ask a polite question.
It happens and I have done it myself - usually looking foolish afterwards when the detail comes out.
It happens and I have done it myself - usually looking foolish afterwards when the detail comes out.